Cab Franc vines dead

[Dennis Griffith]

Of the 11 Cab Francs I planted last year, 4 grafts have survived and I'm in the process of retraining this years growth. But, some of the roots on the ones that the graft has died on is sending up shoots. So should I let them grow and attempt another graft to them next spring, or attempt a graft now to the existing (less viable) trunk. I feel that the new cane will be a better candidate for grafting and just let it grow this year to build strength in the roots. Any opinions?

 

[Xnke]

Let the new cane grow this year, train it up nice and straight. Next spring, graft onto that trunk when the weather will support the graft. Even if the trunk is already budded out a bit, the graft has a better chance when the temperatures are hotter than the cool temps that can come to trying o make the graft before budbreak, I have found.

 

[Skashoon]

Can’t hurt to develop the rootstock roots this season and graft later.

 

[wood1954]

The vineyard I used to pick my grapes from just south of Madison wi, is in the process of removing all their petite pearl due to lack of productivity in their somewhat clayish soil putting in Marquette instead.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

That is good to know as I was thinking of planting some Petite Pearl next spring. Maybe Marquette is the better option?

 

[montanarick]

Our Marquettes out here in Montana thrive very well. Petite Pearl not so much. look into Crimson Peral, Marechal Foch or Leon Millot

 

[Dennis Griffith]

I saw that he had developed the crimson pearl as well, which is a newer variety. So you think it will work better in clay soils?

 

[montanarick]

My soil has a fairly high clay content with carbonaceous sedimentary rock. I don't have any personal experience with Crimson Pearl however a local grower speaks very highly of them

 

[montanarick]

My soil has a fairly high clay content with carbonaceous sedimentary rock. I don't have any personal experience with Crimson Pearl however a local grower speaks very highly of them

Sorry meant to say Calcareous not Carbanaceouos

 

[sremick]

I had 4 of the vines I planted last year showing no life so I was certain they were dead. They were lagging way behind, but all have sprung to life at this point.

Vines are strange.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

An update on the Cab Franc vines. I'm down to 2, but I do have some thriving 101-14 root stock. Seems I lose everything about the graft during the winter. I did graft cab franc cuttings a couple of the root stock that are doing well. Of the 2 Cab Francs left, only one appears to be doing well. I do not think the other will make it past next winter based on my experience so far. So, I'm pulling out 4 vines and replacing with Noiret to see how this variety does here. This one is rated to Zone 5, which should be ok. I'm starting to think that varieties rated at Zone 6A may be hit or miss for me. The other varieties I grow are all rated for colder than Zone 6 and have decent resistance to the fungus/disease pressure we experience here.

 

[VinesnBines]

I've discovered that cold hardy and suitable for a zone may not be the same thing. I am in 6a/6b (depending). Winter temps are rarely below 0F but we do get single digits for a few nights - good that no PD worries. Still it can warm up early in Spring bt we are subject to frost/freezes through mid May.

This means that a winter hardy like Marquette or Marchal Foch will survive the winter just fine but will break so early that they may get killed back by frost or late freeze. Vidal Blanc will break late and will produce a more consistent crop. This year I have done well with frost. Last frost was April 19/20 so the early bud break was not a problem.

I've tried late pruning and double pruning but it did not seem to make a difference. The buds did not break on the end first; apparently the vines failed to read the instructions.

Dennis, I wonder if the Cab Franc are getting killed back by too many late frosts/freeze events? Also, although I'm using 101-14 I was told that 3309 might be better suited for for zone 6a. It also may be the clone. I don't know enough about the clones and which will survive better in which zone. There are so many factors to consider.

 

[ibglowin]

I have both Marquette and Noiret growing here in NM at high altitude so we have our share of late frost and sometimes early frost as well some years. In fact we just got down to 37 this morning. Both Marquette and Noiret have survived our Winters for 12 years now. Had a 3 day period where our lows were -22F and never got above 0F and all vines came back the next year. Noiret is the smarter grape for sure. It's always at least 2 weeks behind Marquette as far as bud break so it rarely gets bit by a late frost. Its always 2-3 weeks behind the Marquette come harvest time making a field blend next to impossible. Problem I have encountered with Noiret over the years is that it seems to grow and produce like crazy for the first 4-5 seasons and then little by little the production dwindles no matter what you do including lots of fertilizer while Marquette just keeps on trucking each year. Noiret produces a larger cluster and a wine that is more like a Syrah IMHO while Marquette produces a smaller cluster with a more Pinot Noir type quality. Of course these are growing in my soils (thin, sandy, volcanic) So YMMV up north where you have some real dirt. Both make a pretty decent table wine. Both need a hefty tannin addition IMHO.

 

[wood1954]

i agree with the tannin addition. i add a lot of cheap tannin during fermentation, then better tannin after racking off the gross lees. The protein in the marquette binds up the tannins.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Thanks for the feedback. This year has been warm, for sure. Last frost date here is typically May 15th, but last year it dropped to 22 on the 22nd. So no fruit other than apples from the orchard last year and the grapes had a late (second) start. This year is well ahead of average and I'm now watching for JB emergence, which doesn't usually happen til mid June. I'll keep some Cab Franc and will order at least a couple next year on the 3309 root stock to see how those go. 101-14 thrills here, but the issue seems to be with the graft. I wonder if wrapping the vines at and above the graft would help. Could be Cab Franc is more sensitive to desiccation that occurs during the couldest part of winter.

 

[VinesnBines]

I lost a Cab Franc to crown gall at the graft. I had to kill the vine since it was so young. I've also lost a couple Chambourcin for no apparent reason.

 

[Dennis Griffith]

Oh, I have crown galling issues too. I typically gravitate toward own rooted vines and allow multiple canes. If one gets galling, I cut that cane out. I have also tried inoculating the soil with Actinovate, a biological fungicide that can be used via soil drench method or sprayed foliarly. The thought is to out complete the bacteria that causes crown gall in the soil. I've had some success. I'd really like to get my hands on Gallex or Galltrol A, but it's not approved for use in Ohio.

 

[VinesnBines]

I go for self rooted mainly to keep from covering the graft. When I start planting more vinifera, I'll have to go with grafted.

 

[balatonwine]

I've discovered that cold hardy and suitable for a zone may not be the same thing.

I fully concur.

And I may add, this is a vastly underappreciated comment.

There is far, far more to what allows a vine (or any plant) to grow well than simplistic issues like hardiness or cimatic "zones".

 

[VinesnBines]

I fully concur.

And I may add, this is a vastly underappreciated comment.

There is far, far more to what allows a vine (or any plant) to grow well than simplistic issues like hardiness or cimatic "zones".

As in real estate the three most important things are location, location, location. To elaborate further, the vine or plant that does well for the neighbor may not do well for you. Sites vary widely with respect to soil, drainage, fertility, frost pockets, sun exposure, rainfall, previous crop usage .....on and on and on. All the factors I named are especially noticeable in mountain areas.