Cabernet or Pinot Noir

[justsipn]

OK....my first wine I'm making is a rhubarb wine and I think it's coming along very well. I plan on bottling in November. So, I've been thinking about what I should make next. I have enough rhubarb in the freezer to make another batch, but I'm not convinced my wife is going to like it. So, I've thought about making a kit wine before more rhubarb. Our favorite wines are either a Cabernet or Pinot Noir.

So....does anyone have a suggestion on a really good 5 gallon kit for either of those? I know nothing about making wine from a kit so I don't know what to look for.

Thanks,

 

[salcoco]

the more you pay the better the wine kit as it is more juice. any of the high end kits by Wine Expert or RJSpagnols will work.

 

[BABRU]

I have had great success with all Wine Expert kits but I’m not convinced that the higher end (larger volume) has more juice. I think the juice is just less concentrated in the higher end (larger volume) kits.

 

[justsipn]

OK, so let ask this. The little research I've done, has these kits for a 6 gallon batch. During the process, you add a certain amount of water.

I only have a 5 gallon carboy. So, couldn't I just leave one gallon of the water out and have a more concentrated batch...which would be better?

Thanks for the input.

Also, is either a Cabernet or Pinot Noir easier to make for a first time kit user?

 

[cmason1957]

OK, so let ask this. The little research I've done, has these kits for a 6 gallon batch. During the process, you add a certain amount of water.

I only have a 5 gallon carboy. So, couldn't I just leave one gallon of the water out and have a more concentrated batch...which would be better?

Thanks for the input.

Also, is either a Cabernet or Pinot Noir easier to make for a first time kit user?

All Kits are about the same ease to make, the varietal doesn't really impact the steps to make it.

Yes, you can leave out a gallon of water. Many folks will make the 6 gallon kits to 5 gallons. I have never done it, I think the kits are designed to be made to a specific amount (6 gallons) and that amount makes the best wine. Folks will disagree about this and I won't argue it much. Bottom line, it will be a more concentrated batch, but better? that's a harder question to answer.

If it were me, I would make it to 6 gallons, put 5 gallons into your carboy and the other gallon (probably really less than a gallon) into a jug and let them age apart, mixing each time you rack.

 

[justsipn]

All Kits are about the same ease to make, the varietal doesn't really impact the steps to make it.

Yes, you can leave out a gallon of water. Many folks will make the 6 gallon kits to 5 gallons. I have never done it, I think the kits are designed to be made to a specific amount (6 gallons) and that amount makes the best wine. Folks will disagree about this and I won't argue it much. Bottom line, it will be a more concentrated batch, but better? that's a harder question to answer.

If it were me, I would make it to 6 gallons, put 5 gallons into your carboy and the other gallon (probably really less than a gallon) into a jug and let them age apart, mixing each time you rack.

Thank you....that's a great idea. I actually have a jug that I think would work very well. All I would need is another air lock. I then could use that when I need to top off the carboy after racking.

Thanks for the input.

 

[BABRU]

That’s a PERFECT solution.

 

[sour_grapes]

Thank you....that's a great idea. I actually have a jug that I think would work very well. All I would need is another air lock. I then could use that when I need to top off the carboy after racking.

Thanks for the input.

It is time for me to mention that the so-called "Universal bungs" are universal because they can be used upside-down to fit wine bottles.

 

[salcoco]

the wine kits have been balanced by the seller to make a 23 liter batch of wine. if you change any of the characteristics there is a risk that the wine will not be better. if you are experienced and familiar with brix, ta and ph measurements you might be able to adjust the kit to make a good wine. without this data just reducing the water will not necessarily be beneficial. I would ferment the kit in an open 10 gallon or greater bucket. take the time to purchase a 6 gallon carboy. once wine is complete fermentation age in the carboy. if you want to experiment buy one of the cheaper kits , why waste your money?

 

[rustbucket]

It is time for me to mention that the so-called "Universal bungs" are universal because they can be used upside-down to fit wine bottles.

Thanks for mentioning this, Paul; I didn't know that.

 

[winemaker81]

@justsipn -- which do you like better, Cabernet Sauvignon or Pinot Noir? Make which ever it is. Then make the other as your next batch.

I have had good experiences with Winexpert and R J Spagnols. I can't comment on other vendors as I lack experience.

In general, the higher the ratio of juice to concentrate, the better the result. However, I personally do not feel the high end kits produce a wine better enough to justify the cost. I typically use mid-range kits ($100 to $130 USD). That said, anything from Winexpert or R J Spagnols will produce a wine you can be proud of.

I keep a large selection of extra containers and have 27 three-piece airlocks and drilled stoppers to fit everything you can imagine. As was recommended, put the wine in the 5 gallon carboy and store the remainder in smaller containers. Each racking, especially the early rackings, will reduce your volume so you'll need top up.

I typically reconstitute 6 gallon / 23 liter kits to 5.5 to 5.75 US gallons. In previous years, kits tended to be a bit thin when reconstituted to 6 gallons, but I'm seeing current kits being better suited to the amount stated on the label. I have 2 kit wines in the bottle that are a bit acidic, so IMO the vendors I use (Winexpert and R J Spagnols) are producing better quality.

 

[justsipn]

@winemaker81 Thanks for the response.

Question: All the kits I look at say "ready to bottle in 4 weeks". I'm assuming it's OK still still age those in the carboy for months before bottling. After working with my first batch of wine and it's in the 4th month after 3 rankings and still a lot of lees to rack off of before I bottle, I can't imagine bottling after only 4 weeks.

But, I don't know if that's how the kit is designed so that's what you should do, or can you do whatever you want with aging?

 

[familynerone]

Weighing in on this - I've done several full-size and small batch kits now, and end up with beautifully clear wine in as little as 4 weeks. The kits generally use Bentonite at the start, then Kieselsol and Chitosan when racking to degas and clear. That regimen really clears the wine very well. I personally don't age in carboys right now, partly as I don't want that equipment tied up for long - I would rather get it bottled. I have had no problems bottling at the 4 week mark for a 4-week kit when they use the three items indicated above.
Another option to consider as you venture into kits - check out the one-gallon "small batch" kits that Winexpert makes. I bought a small batch starter equipment kit that included all the equipment needed for a one-gallon batch, and I got to select which wine recipe kit to include (I chose Cabernet). It cost around $70 for all of it, equip plus the wine kit. The end result was fantastic - almost shockingly so, definitely way beyond my expectations. I have since done a small batch Chardonnay and Merlot (buying just the recipe kits for those, of course, and using the equipment I got the first time) - and those also turned out incredibly well. When making a small batch, instead of bottling in 5 full-size bottles, I bottle in 10 demi/375mL bottles. That also makes them great to open for cooking and whatnot.
So - if not sure about Cab, Pinot, etc. - small batches can be a great way to have some variety and learn how the kits work. I think the one-gallon kits also offer a Pinot Noir.

 

[winemaker81]

@justsipn, the duration on the kit label is the minimum time. You can bulk age the wine as long as you desire. Unless I'm adding extra oak, I typically bottle kits 1 to 4 weeks after the kit is supposed to be "done". Some age kits for a year.

I assume we're talking about the rhubarb wine? What is the SG? If it's not below 1.000, the fermentation is not done. [I assume it is, but it's best to settle that question up front.]

Assuming fermentation is done, is the wine clear? If it looks hazy, you may have suspended fruit pectin. Add pectic enzyme to fix that. I add pectic to all fruit wines at the start -- I had to add it later often enough that I simply take a pre-emptive action.

Stirring the wine, as kits direct, will drive off dissolved CO2 -- if there is CO2, the wine will not clear. I did that with my grape wines last fall and they cleared in record time.

How careful are you racking? If you're sucking up sediment, it's going to drop in the carboy later on. I rack down to where the sediment starts getting close to the racking tube, then stop. I pour the remaining wine (along with some sediment) into tall bottles and refrigerate. After a week the sediment compacts and you can pour the wine off -- this method saves wasting a lot of wine.

Once all that is done, if the wine is still dropping sediment, try kieselsol/chitosan -- it works great! Around here it's marketed as Super-Kleer (or something similar). Follow the package direction, adding them two packets in the order specified -- if you don't, it won't work.

Good luck.

 

[justsipn]

My Rhubarb wine is coming along quite well (I think). It's SG is below 1.000 and clarifying very very nicely. I'm actually amazed at how clear it is without the use of a clarifying agent. It was started about 4 1/2 months ago and the goal is to now not rack it again till late November and bottle it then.

These questions are about the wine I'm thinking about starting after I bottle the Rhubarb. If I were to start one right now and the directions say it'll be ready to bottle in 6 weeks, I think I would probably bulk age it till at least 4-5 months.

Thanks for the input.