Cellar Craft CC Red Mountain

[BeerAlchemist]

New guy so please be patient as I'm on my first few steps of what looks like a steep learning curve.

As soon as a Morebeer delivery arrives with a new cartridge for my water filter I will be putting together my first wine kit...CC Red Mountain. So from everything I have heard, if I follow the directions it will turn out fine. However, are there thoughts on how I can improve on the basic? I already plan to bulk age it, but what else might I do? IIRC it comes with champaigne yeast which I thought a little strange, is there a better choice? Fermentation temp? Put the grapeskins in the bag or let them float free? Anyway, anything anyone can think of would be appreciated. I don't mind spending a little money over the next year for odds and ends that I might use such as a Buon Vino or a barrel so feel free to shoot.

 

[Geronimo]

I've made this kit twice and it's quite good. Put the skins in a bag, use the supplied yeast, and plan to age it a year or so before it's really good. I prefer a fermentation temp of 68-72, and I use an Ice Cube cooler with water to help keep the temp constant and readily manageable.

IMHO I would not deviate from the kit instructions at all until you have made several kits. The people at CC want you to be a happy customer, and they've done a good job.

 

[Rocky]

BA, I have never made that particular kit but I have heard nothing but great things about it. I believe it comes with 2 liters of grape skins, which is nice, but you could add more grape skins or add raisins to increase flavor and mouth. One thing I recommend is to squeeze the bag a couple of times per day (make sure you sanitize your hands with k-meta solution first) for better extraction. You can add to the oak that is provided and also add tannin, in the form of TanCor, down the line. Lastly, barrel aging does magical things for red wines. A different yeast will definitely help but I am sorry that I cannot advise on that. I just know that the yeast that normally comes with a kit has a broad spectrum of activity though not necessarily the best for a particular wine.

Good luck and keep us up to date on your progress!

 

[BeerAlchemist]

Thanks guys...I have good temperature control so it won't be any problem holding it at 70 or whatever for the fermentation phase. I'm so used to all the horror stories of the famously poor instructions of beer kits that I'm hesitant to believe wine kit instructions but everything I hear is that is unecessary. Sounds like I will have to do some research on barrels.

And perhaps, you all know why wine seems to use different sanitizing solutions than beer? My go to has always been Starsan.

 

[robie]

And perhaps, you all know why wine seems to use different sanitizing solutions than beer? My go to has always been Starsan.

I use both StarSan and a Kmeta sanitizing solution (3 tbsp per gallon). I put each in its own spray bottle and use them liberally. StarSan is a contact sanitizer; Kmeta sanitizes more by its fumes.

I would recommend using a Kmeta solution for sanitizing my bottles at bottling time. I would also use it in sealed carboys during storage. Other than that, StarSan is great.

 

[Rocky]

BA, I have never made beer but one thing I would caution about wine directions is not to get hung up on the "times" they cite and to rely on hydrometer readings to go from step to step. For example, if the directins day to move to a secondary fermenter in 7 days, I would move it in 5 days if the SG was at 1.020 at that point.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

BA, I have never made beer but one thing I would caution about wine directions is not to get hung up on the "times" they cite and to rely on hydrometer readings to go from step to step. For example, if the directins day to move to a secondary fermenter in 7 days, I would move it in 5 days if the SG was at 1.020 at that point.

What about going the opposite direction and letting it sit on the skins and yeast for a month before going to secondary? Or is it critically important to not let a wine fully ferment before racking?

 

[Rocky]

I have never tried it but I don't know of any reason why you could not. Maybe someone else on the forum does.

If you have a fermenter with a top that snaps down and seals and has provision for an airlock, I suppose you could do that when the SG hits around 1.020 or so and let it go dry (i.e. SG = 0.990-0.995). You need to have the wine under airlock at the lower SGs as the amount of CO2 expelled is not enough to protect it. I am not sure you should go so far afield on your first try, though, but that is up to you. I understand that you are experienced with beer so you understand fermentation.

 

[ibglowin]

Do not let it sit on the skins/lees for a month! Follow the directions! They have actually been tweaked over the last 2 years for optimal results (ferment to dry in the primary for maximum skin contact). Skins in bag for sure, punch down with a spoon or toss in a heavy glass jar, sanitized of course to hold the bag under the surface of the must. Don't keep it cool. Let it go. Warm temps are better for extraction than cooler temps. Snap the lid and add the airlock when it slows down ~1.025 or so.

The only tweaks for a first kit, maybe more oak if you like more oak and for goodness sake don't even attempt to drink any before a year. You can bottle at 6 months of bulk aging.

This is one of the best Cab Sauv kits out there but it will take time to fully mature.

 

[tonyportale]

I have never tried it but I don't know of any reason why you could not. Maybe someone else on the forum does.

If you have a fermenter with a top that snaps down and seals and has provision for an airlock, I suppose you could do that when the SG hits around 1.020 or so and let it go dry (i.e. SG = 0.990-0.995). You need to have the wine under airlock at the lower SGs as the amount of CO2 expelled is not enough to protect it. I am not sure you should go so far afield on your first try, though, but that is up to you. I understand that you are experienced with beer so you understand fermentation.

The comment about snapping the lid down as the SG drops caught my eye. I did not do that with my kit. I left the lid resting on top with the hole open. It took about 7 days to get the SG to .996 and I just racked to second carboy. Based on your comment about the lid, do you think I'm O.K.?
Thank you,
Tony

 

[Bartman]

The comment about snapping the lid down as the SG drops caught my eye. I did not do that with my kit. I left the lid resting on top with the hole open. It took about 7 days to get the SG to .996 and I just racked to second carboy. Based on your comment about the lid, do you think I'm O.K.?
Thank you,
Tony

Tony, you're fine. You did exactly what I do on all my kits (including a couple Red Mountain Cab. kits) and I have never had a problem. Two weeks left open and you might have a problem with oxidation, but not in one week - if nothing else it's still loaded with CO2 after 7 days which should keep it from getting too much oxygen, even after fully fermenting.

 

[MrKevin]

BA on my first kit I would stay with the directions and just bulk age the wine for 6 months. Now after this kit we (most posting here) have a lot of ideas how to tweek the wine kits. I personally believe the kits are factory designed to be good and be bottled quickly (6-8 week), It would be hard for a company to market a product with a real wine timeline. My opinion for what it cost you.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

The only tweaks for a first kit, maybe more oak if you like more oak and for goodness sake don't even attempt to drink any before a year. You can bottle at 6 months of bulk aging.

I probably won't play with the oak as I'm finding out quickly that wine uses way more oak than does an oaked beer (I just used 3 ounces in 5 gallons of bourbon barley wine I just did and that is quite a bit in beer land) so I want to get my bearings on that. But, when you say ferment warm, what does that mean? I am seeing a wide range of fermentation temps so dialing it in more specifically would be of help...I can control to the degree so please feel free to be specific.

 

[ibglowin]

I meant that you should not attempt to "cool the fermenter down". Start the ferment ~72F and then let it go. Depending on how warm the room temp is it may go as high as 80F for a few days and then start to cool off back towards room temp. Do not worry about too high a temp with a red ferment.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

BA on my first kit I would stay with the directions and just bulk age the wine for 6 months. Now after this kit we (most posting here) have a lot of ideas how to tweek the wine kits. I personally believe the kits are factory designed to be good and be bottled quickly (6-8 week), It would be hard for a company to market a product with a real wine timeline. My opinion for what it cost you.

Yeah that is what I am trying to reconcile, where marketing needs and ease of use end and realities that can make something that is good be great.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

I meant that you should not attempt to "cool the fermenter down". Start the ferment ~72F and then let it go. Depending on how warm the room temp is it may go as high as 80F for a few days and then start to cool off back towards room temp. Do not worry about too high a temp with a red ferment.

That's exactly what I was looking for, perfect thanks . Its also the same fermentation style I do for Belgians and I have a pumpkin Belgian dubbel brew coming up, maybe I'll let go side by side and party together.

 

[ibglowin]

The worst mistake is to try and rush it into the bottle. Even though it says it can be bottled in 6-8 weeks I know for a fact that that kit (any red kit with grapeskins) will drop more fine sediment for ~4-6 months. You bottle before its finished dropping and you will have some fine sediment in the bottle over time. Not a pretty sight in the glass. Do not rush to bottle with this kit.

 

[BeerAlchemist]

The worst mistake is to try and rush it into the bottle. Even though it says it can be bottled in 6-8 weeks I know for a fact that that kit (any red kit with grapeskins) will drop more fine sediment for ~4-6 months. You bottle before its finished dropping and you will have some fine sediment in the bottle over time. Not a pretty sight in the glass. Do not rush to bottle with this kit.

I'll put my lambic patience cap on...I also want to use the bulk aging on oak as an opportunity to really see how the oak character develops over time. Sounds like I should pick up a couple more better bottles to dedicate to wine and get some more kits going into the pipeline...hmm, merlot, syrah, franc something that will let me play with blending down the road.

 

[Geronimo]

Nothing wrong with the opinions here... but it's no disaster to follow the instructions to the letter and bottle age your early wine attempts. Unless you drink roughly 1 bottle a week, you'll need a lot of 6 gallon carboys to bulk age all that. The wine will be excellent either way, you can sample it along the way to it's peak, and just have some fun with it. After all, you're making a $5/bottle wine so it's not like you can't afford to play with it.

Just my 2¢

 

[BeerAlchemist]

My LHBS has 6 gallon PET carboys for $17 each so no big deal for me to buy a new one every time I get a wine kit. I already have so many fermentors and cornie kegs I bet my wife never notices a few new ones sneaking in .