Cellar Air Conditioning Question

[jsbeckton]

I am building a celler under my basement stairs, currently working on the insulation but it will require active cooling. I have a small 5000btu AC on order which I will mount to the wall once it arrives.

My question is, what is everyone doing with the AC condensation? Are you collecting it in a drip pan that you have to drain?

 

[AZMDTed]

I'm using a 5000 BTU AC unit in my room and there is no issue with condensation. The instructions to mine had me tilt the back side down about a quarter inch during installation. This moves the condensate to the collection pan in the unit and from there it just evaporates. Mine is helped by having the basement dehumidifier just a few feet away.

 

[jsbeckton]

I also have a dehumidifier a few feet away too so hopefully I luck out as well. What is yours set at? Think mine is at 50% but i could bump that lower if needed. Thanks!

 

[AZMDTed]

I keep the humidifier at about 60 or 65%. I've never had an issue with AC condensation at that level. Inside the wine room I have an ultrasonic humidifier going which keeps it at 54% humidity. I chuckle at the thought of adding humidity on one side of wall while I'm taking it out on another. If only I could work a trade without changing the temps in the wine room. BTW, I keep my temperature controller in the wine room at 58 with the AC kicking back in when it hits 61.

 

[jsbeckton]

I was thinking similar temps. May also have to have a humidifier inside or start using nomacorcs. At one point I was thinking about running a tube from the AC drip pan back through the wall and onto a sponge in the cellar for redistribution. Guess that may not work if it mostly evaporates in the unit.

 

[Johnd]

Another method you can consider is simply keeping a pan of water in the room, altering the amount of surface area to control the humidity. I've also read that setting a concrete masonry unit in a pan increases the rate of vapor transmission. Disclaimer: My unit is a refrigeration unit, not A/C, and has no humidity controls, and my humidity is always between 70 and 73%, so I've never tried either of these methods............

 

[AZMDTed]

Another method you can consider is simply keeping a pan of water in the room, altering the amount of surface area to control the humidity. I've also read that setting a concrete masonry unit in a pan increases the rate of vapor transmission. Disclaimer: My unit is a refrigeration unit, not A/C, and has no humidity controls, and my humidity is always between 70 and 73%, so I've never tried either of these methods............

John,
I tried that in my cellar. An open pan of water didn't do anything for my humidity. However taking that pan, setting it on a cinderblock and then dipping a towel into the water and the other end between the pan and cinder block did work. It raised the humidity a good 10% but eventually the block became saturated and the then the water just ran on to the floor. But the block does make a nice sponge and release for the water until it's saturated so by putting it in a pan, rather than under one would probably work well. A really fancy passive system would be to make a smooth gravel bed in the cellar and periodically just put water in the gravel, but I'm not ready for that yet. Though it might give it a nice Japanese Zen garden feel.

I'm good with my ultrasonic humidifier, though I don't think it's enough to keep my barrel from drying. For now, I'm draping a damp towel over it to keep it moist, but the bottles are fine.

Ted

 

[dcbrown73]

An AC unit is a dehumidifier!

That said, I've been thinking about this too. Are there specific types of units made for wine rooms that do not suck so much moisture out of the air? If I remember correctly, you want your room to be more humid than most rooms as to not dry out the cork. (or something like that) Hence why many wine rooms are cellars and do not require AC units that remove the moisture from the air.

Though I suppose as long as you aren't aging wines for many years, maybe it's okay. Though if you're making wine. You are probably aging at least two years. An expensive bottle of wine in an air conditioned room for 10+ years would probably be problematic.

EDIT: I should have kept reading before responding.

 

[AZMDTed]

An AC unit is a dehumidifier!

That said, I've been thinking about this too. Are there specific types of units made for wine rooms that do not suck so much moisture out of the air?

EDIT: I should have kept reading before responding.

Yes there are, starting generally at about $1,295 as opposed to $129 for a 5K BTU AC unit. From several sources they also talk about what size AC unit to get. For houses some recommend smaller units because they will first dehumidify a room making it feel cooler before the actual temp is modified. Whereas larger units will cool it down and shut off before it has a chance to do too much dehumidification. If that is true, then a 5K BTU AC unit for a 300 cu ft room is way overkill and the temperature will be kept in check quicker with lesser effect on the humidity. There is clearly still an effect as my the wine room, without extra humidification, stays a constant 43% as opposed to outside the room with stays about 65%.

From my limited experience so far I wouldn't worry about the AC in terms of cork integrity, I'm thinking of it more in terms of drying out my barrel. Worst case scenario is that I just leave my barrel outside in the basement. I've researched humidity as a cellaring condition and there seems to be little science behind what is enough.

 

[Johnd]

An AC unit is a dehumidifier!

That said, I've been thinking about this too. Are there specific types of units made for wine rooms that do not suck so much moisture out of the air? If I remember correctly, you want your room to be more humid than most rooms as to not dry out the cork. (or something like that) Hence why many wine rooms are cellars and do not require AC units that remove the moisture from the air.

Though I suppose as long as you aren't aging wines for many years, maybe it's okay. Though if you're making wine. You are probably aging at least two years. An expensive bottle of wine in an air conditioned room for 10+ years would probably be problematic.

EDIT: I should have kept reading before responding.

Yes, refrigeration units, as opposed to A/C units, operate under the same principles as A/C units, but at different air flow and temperature variances. A quick remembrance back to the psychrometric chart will hurt your head, wet bulb, dry bulb, ouch. Nonetheless, they don't strip as much humidity as an A/C unit does. I was afraid that in my humid region that I'd have high humidity problems, but that's not been the case so far. It may change when we get into the winter months and the unit runs less. Just have to wait and see.

 

[Steve_M]

I have a very small room in basement where I've insulated 3 exterior walls and ceiling. This is a walkout basement so a large square foot of wall is exposed above ground. Wine room temps were pushing 78-80 degrees, so I put a 5000 btu ac in. Temps holding steady at around 61-62F even with weather in the upper 80's low 90. Humidity is still hovering around 78-80%. What I would like to do is add a controller onto better regulate on/off cycle and allow me to have fan turn off.

 

[MoBrewing]

I do heating and air for a living, you need a condensate pump, AC drains into pump and when it fills it pumps water out. You just run 1/2" vinyl hose to a drain or sink.

 

[NorCal]

I have a very small room in basement where I've insulated 3 exterior walls and ceiling. This is a walkout basement so a large square foot of wall is exposed above ground. Wine room temps were pushing 78-80 degrees, so I put a 5000 btu ac in. Temps holding steady at around 61-62F even with weather in the upper 80's low 90. Humidity is still hovering around 78-80%. What I would like to do is add a controller onto better regulate on/off cycle and allow me to have fan turn off.

I am using a $10 controller from eBay (housed in an old power supply box) for the past 3 years. Works like a champ. Search eBay 110v controller, sort low to high, you'll find it.

 

[jsbeckton]

Well after the first 2 months I can say that while I see some water collecting in the bottom of the unit and hear it splash just a bit sometime as the fan kicks on, not a drop has actually come out of the unit.

 

[AZMDTed]

I'm glad it's working out. Btw with the ground cooling here my AC is not running nearly as much which is allowing the humidity in the wine cellar to rise to 60-65% which is right where I'd like it to be. Not realistic in the summer when the AC runs more but if I get 7 months a year like this I'm happy.

 

[Crown_King_Robb]

Just a little more info on the Condensate pump. I have to use one on my HVAC.

it collects the drips in its resevoir, and then when full enough, it pumps it out either to a drain or "outside" via tubing.

https://www.pumpproducts.com/little...6v7aIj7Rk_wCGrmfxWedHuLYm9O4fbLACvBoCYJPw_wcB

 

[skylieq]

I'm glad it's working out. Btw with the ground cooling here my AC is not running nearly as much which is allowing the humidity in the wine cellar to rise to 60-65% which is right where I'd like it to be. Not realistic in the summer when the AC runs more but if I get 7 months a year like this I'm happy.

I can't get that level of moisture already. You've had a lot of luck with your soil.

 

[rinegills]

Because I use the air conditioner all the time, my humidity is very low, and I have to use a humidifier all the time. My wallet is not happy about the big electric bill.

 

[baratras]

The temperature in my cellar is usually around 20 degrees. And if you don't use air conditioning, it becomes unsuitable for fermenting wine. The wine doesn't get the proper time to mature, and it ferments too fast. And it just tastes disgusting. So I put the used conditioner in the cellar. I ordered a cleaning at https://www.socool.sg/, so no debris would go into the wine. But after installing it, I found out about the problem of too dry air. Humidifiers partially solve this problem, but as I see it, not completely.