Champlain Valley - Grapemans' vineyard - Planting to small winery

[grapeman]

ken you probably haven't heard about them because they are mostly French-American crosses and other hybrids developed for cold climates since vinifera grapes don't do well in many areas of the country. A lot are developed at Cornell here in NY and the University of Minnesota and previously by Elmer Swensen- a pioneer in breeding cold hardy grapes.


rodman, I can give you information on all the varieties except the Traminette. From all indications it is an excellent grape, but probably just a bit tender for here. I have them tucked up against the north edge of the pine trees so they get extra heat and protection and no shade. Time will tell. I am thinking of growing them as head pruned and taking the canes off the wire for winter and then tying back up 3 to 5 canes the next spring. The snow protection may be all that is needed to get the buds to survive the winter.










As an example of this, here is a picture of a Glenora black Seedless grape normally too tender for here. Note the multiple canes tied up in a rough fan shape.

Edited by: appleman

 

[rodman]

I have some mild concerns with bothTraminette and Cayuga buthope they will do okhere in N. Ohio.I had not heard ofthe head prunesystem you are showing in the last picture. I plan to use a scott henry as I am on productive land. What is your opinion, have I made a mistake going to this system?

 

[grapeman]

The Scott Henry system works well but requires a lot of work to establish, prune and maintain. It helps spread the canopy for better ripening. Myself, I would rather go with the Geneva Double Curtain. I wouldn't worry about Cayuga there, it does very well at Willsboro and we have been hitting about -11 to -12 there the last few years with very minimal bud damage. Other than somebody yanking a full grown Cayuga out by the roots to steal it, we haven't lost any at the site.

 

[NorthernWinos]

Someone stold a grapevine????

 

[grapeman]

Kind of unbelievable isn't it NW? I went down a couple weeks ago and there was a big hole in the plastic mulch and a hole in the ground. No signs of shovel work and a bunch of broken roots. Must have been a stong sucker to yank out such a big vine. The trunks are a couple inches across.


We are expecting rain for a few days so I went ahead and sprayed my vines this evening for a few bugs and phomopsis and black rot. The Frontenac are about 3-5 inch shoot and others aren't far behind. It's funny because down at Willsboro the Frintenac are still several days behind mine and the GR-7 and Baco are way ahead with a half dozen leaves open. Anyways, what a pleasure to spray with my new sprayer. It took all of 15 minutes to do it!

 

[grapeman]

It turned out to be a wonderfully sunny day today, about 70 right now so I decided to put off bottling and work outside today. I cleaned up a lot of weeds that the roundup didn't get earlier this spring in the grapes. I used the tiller and the hoe. Still more to do, but looking pretty good.


About 10 days ago I dug up the 500 St. Pepin cuttings I took last fall. I put them in a tub of vermiculite and set in the greenhouse. They were sprouting buds pretty good and had calloused fairly well with a few roots.
I didn't want to break too many buds, so I stuck them in the ground today.


Here is a picture of them in the tub

Here they are in the ground- about 500 of them(St. Pepin)

Here are a few of the 1000 other cuttings started in zipsets. I found that my heat mat must get too hot because where I had 6 flats on it, none of them were growing except the ones that wouldn't quite fit on the mat. I will need to find a better way to provide 80 degree bottom heat for next year. I may set up a small demand water heater and pex tubing under the bench. I think I could control that easier and more accurately and warm the greenhouse at the same time.

Edited by: appleman

 

[NorthernWinos]

WOW!!!! You are going to have a HUGE vineyard....and very soon.

Very well done!!!!!

 

[farmer]

When I picked up my new vines from Winterhaven Nursery included with the invoice was this note. Are there other varieties that are patented and trademarked? I guess i thought a person could propagate for your own vineyard.

Am I missing something here ?

 

[grapeman]

Also when you purchased those varieties you paid a Royalty on those varieties. This goes towards the development of new varieties. Some varieties are actually patented to help protect the folks who spend so much time and money developing these.


The Cornell varieties from NY are also protected. When you buy from Double A Vineyards they have you sign a non-propagation release form. That stipulates that you aren't supposed to propagate those protected varieties. They sell some that are protected, but don't charge premiums for yet. If those varieties are later named and released, you pay the going royalty rate for the ones already purchased. Some varieties you can propagate if you sign the agreement form and must send them yearly payments for those vines grown that year.


While we don't like these royalties, it is in my opinion a small price to pay for getting these newer excellent grapes. That's the reason why I don't ever mention me starting those varieties - you aren't supposed to. I propagate the better varieties that came out 20 years ago or whatever since these have come off from the premium list and can be propagated without extra fees.


Winterhaven's statement is just a drop in the bucket compared to the Cornell agreements. See the following link to one for Noiret.
http://www.rakgrape.com/pdf_files/noiret_grower_agreement.pdfEdited by: appleman

 

[NorthernWinos]

There really are 'Plant Police' out there.

This year WalMart had a huge selection of bare root plants for sale in March...a friend and I were licking them up like candy...Then one day they were all gone. I kept asking the sales people and one gal said they got orders from the state of Minnesota that these plants were being 'abused'...in plastic bags with no refrigeration. I asked the manager too...he said they all got thrown in the dumpster that someone had a lot of power. I questioned why Home Depot across the street still had theirs???? And...WalMart in Fargo and Grand Forks across the state line had theirs????? ...No one seemed to know any answers.

That sure was a waste of the best selection of bare root plants they have ever carried.

Then there is the Monsanto 'RoundUp Ready' patent on the corn and soybean seed that farmers buy.....we can't even sell our left over bags of seed to other farmers....they keep track of how many bags of seed you buy and use. You can not use any of your own seed out of your bins under any circumstance. We can't even give a few buckets of seed to the neighbors to plant a deer food plot.

Too many regulations.

Edited by: Northern Winos

 

[grapeman]

The vines continue to come out of their deep slumber and harken the warmer temperatures. The Frontenac are the most advanced at my place with shoots about 3-5 inches with 5 leaves and the inforescence clearly showing(flower buds). The American varieties that got hit so hard by the Steely Flea Bettles last year are almost as advanced, just a couple days behind. Time will tell- I may see a pattern with the Alden and Buffalo of excessive bud kill over winter even with the last few mild winters. It may be that they are still young and are more vulnerable to low temps. I will give them another year to redeem themselves and if they don't, I will need to replace them with something else.


The Cab Franc that I buried made it through the winter well and have shoots 3 to 5 inches also- but I don't really count them yet. I am seeing a lot of variability in the Traminette at this point. Some are just breaking buds and some have 2 inch shoots and a couple I am not sure survived the winter.


I worked in the vineyard yesterday hoeing , roto-tilling and running the harrow between the rows. The rows are clean for the most part now. I stripped lower buds as I went along on the older varieties that made good progress and are trained well now.


Here is some Frontenac vines to show their progress.

 

[NorthernWinos]

They look really nice....love seeing the little flower buds.

You sure keep your soil clear of weeds....Is that really sandy??? It looks like pure sand or is it a red clay???

Do you have to water or do you get dependable rain???

 

[grapeman]

It is genuine SAND. It is dry at times but the water table is only down 2-4 feet. Once the vines get established it isn't really a problem. The reason I keep everything as weed free as possible is to give the grapes the available water not the weeds. We generally get enough rains to allow things to keep growing, but I have had to water a few times with a hose the newly planted vines.


Something interesting I am noting is a panel of four LaCrosse vines. They are on one of the driest sections of the vineyard and last year they looked like they were suffering. It looked like they were either deficient in some micronutrient or possibly even had a touch of powdery mildew-maybe both. The vines just had a stunted look to them and never got a ton of leaves. Remember I say that light is needed to initiate the buds to form flowers for the next year. Well apparently the extra light they got from lack of excessive leaves made a difference. That panel sticks out like a sore thumb so far this year. The growth is twice as big as the rest of the LaCrosse and the shoots are just covered with flower clusters. I will need to monitor this phenomenon through the year.

 

[bilbo-in-maine]

Looking good Rich! Boy, I wish my Frontenac looked so good. They are barely showing any budswell, let alone breaking, and the same with the Fr. Gris. Last year they were first off the line. So, I don't really know what is happening with them.
Like NW, I always marvel at your soil (er, sand). It looks just like a beach. Obviously, it is great for grape growing. Your vines sound like they are very happy. And, you are fortunate to be getting some warmth there. We are unusually cool this spring, and it is holding many things back a bit.

 

[OilnH2O]

Wow...what I'd do for some nice sandy soil!

It must be nice to be able to actually use a hoe without having it create sparks every time it hits the ground!!!

 

[NorthernWinos]

We have some sand and clay...add water...bake in the sun = bricks.

Then when it rains they will crumble if you get the clods at just the right time.

 

[grapeman]

We are getting some nasty weather outside right now. The temperature is down to 41 degrees and the wind is gusting to over 20 mph with light rain. The mountains have snow mixed in and it is the middle of the afternoon. YUCK!

 

[NorthernWinos]

Must be the crap-o-la we had for a couple days...hang onto your hat!!!!

 

[OilnH2O]

We had it before you, NW, but we're sending bright sun and warm temps your way now -- although the jet stream has another Pacific storm coming in on thursday. I imagine the sun will be there by then.

 

[grapeman]

I went out this evening the rub buds and shoots off the lower parts of the vines. Had to hold ontomy hat and froze my az....tec off. Man those Frontenac are really pushing- hope it doesn't get TOOOO COLD tonight! Some of the basal shoots were up to a foot long! Seems a shame to pull them all off, but it mst be done so I can have some MUST this fall!