Chilean juice pail tweaks

[peterseng]

Thanks cmason. I had been thinking RC212 for the yeast but your suggestions are looking good as well... will have to mull that one over for a bit. By the way, where did you find that information about yeast for Pinot? I can't find it in my copy of the morewinemaking red wine manual... As for the manual, I have worked with that multiple times in my short "career" as an amateur vintner. It's really a great resource!
Adding some pre-fermentation tannin sounds like a good idea, in the absence of skins. Are there any other additives that might be helpful, such as Opti-Red or Bouster Rouge? (from the manual, both seem like they might help give a juice bucket a little something more - but I've never worked with either).
Thanks!

 

[cmason1957]

I used to use RC-212 for almost all reds, but I had two years in a row where I developed the dreaded rotten egg smell at the very end of alcohol fermentation and now never use it. It just needs so much nutrition. Go to the Morewinemaking.com site and from the front page there is a link to manuals. Scroll down a bit and there is one called yeast pairing or something like that. Lots of great information in those manuals. I refer to them often.

I have never used Opti-Red or Bouster Rouge in a juice bucket. I almost think they need skins to extract something from, but I may well be mistaken about that.

 

[Ajmassa]

Adding some pre-fermentation tannin sounds like a good idea, in the absence of skins. Are there any other additives that might be helpful, such as Opti-Red or Bouster Rouge? (from the manual, both seem like they might help give a juice bucket a little something more - but I've never worked with either).
Thanks!

@cmason1957 speaks truth. He’s like the juice pail master around here!
When fermenting juice buckets my mindset has been “just toss it in”. Grapes if possible. Fresh or ‘just fermented’ skins.
Or the all grape pack from Mosti.
http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/
I love $5 additive pack from morewine (sans the enzyme if no grapes) https://morewinemaking.com/products/additive-pack-brehm-frozen-fruit-reds.html
And/or oak powder or chips too.
And I’m a RC212 guy for juice pails.
Never did a “control” batch at the same time so hard to fully know the benefits, but I think it helps. Plus it’s fun

 

[cmason1957]

@cmason1957 speaks truth. He’s like the juice pail master around here!
When fermenting juice buckets my mindset has been “just toss it in”. Grapes if possible. Fresh or ‘just fermented’ skins.
Or the all grape pack from Mosti.
http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/
I love $5 additive pack from morewine (sans the enzyme if no grapes) https://morewinemaking.com/products/additive-pack-brehm-frozen-fruit-reds.html
And/or oak powder or chips too.
And I’m a RC212 guy for juice pails.
Never did a “control” batch at the same time so hard to fully know the benefits, but I think it helps. Plus it’s fun

If you were to see the price for California Grapes we have to pay here in Missouri, you would understand why I do juice pails. Do enough of them and you learn a trick or three.

 

[Ajmassa]

If you were to see the price for California Grapes we have to pay here in Missouri, you would understand why I do juice pails. Do enough of them and you learn a trick or three.

I still find that so odd that grapes are that much more expensive in your area. Yet 1/2 the cost on east coast in spite of shipping x2 the distance.

Chalking that up to Missouri mafioso having poor business skills

 

[monty]

@cmason1957 speaks truth. He’s like the juice pail master around here!
When fermenting juice buckets my mindset has been “just toss it in”. Grapes if possible. Fresh or ‘just fermented’ skins.
Or the all grape pack from Mosti.
http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/
I love $5 additive pack from morewine (sans the enzyme if no grapes) https://morewinemaking.com/products/additive-pack-brehm-frozen-fruit-reds.html
And/or oak powder or chips too.
And I’m a RC212 guy for juice pails.
Never did a “control” batch at the same time so hard to fully know the benefits, but I think it helps. Plus it’s fun

I'm thinking about getting a lug of grapes and adding to my Chilean juice buckets this year. How much of a difference does the grape varietal I choose make? I'm doing a Carmenere juice, but considering getting maybe Merlot grapes.

I would crush them by hand and put them into a paint strainer bag, and squeeze it out when I remove them. Can I then freeze the grapes and reuse them one more time?

 

[sour_grapes]

Considering that the Carmenere grapes in Chile were, for many years, thought to be Merlot, I would think your suggestion is a fine one.

 

[peterseng]

@cmason1957 speaks truth. He’s like the juice pail master around here!
When fermenting juice buckets my mindset has been “just toss it in”. Grapes if possible. Fresh or ‘just fermented’ skins.
Or the all grape pack from Mosti.
http://www.juicegrape.com/Mosti-Mondiale-All-Grape-Pack/
I love $5 additive pack from morewine (sans the enzyme if no grapes) https://morewinemaking.com/products/additive-pack-brehm-frozen-fruit-reds.html
And/or oak powder or chips too.
And I’m a RC212 guy for juice pails.
Never did a “control” batch at the same time so hard to fully know the benefits, but I think it helps. Plus it’s fun

AJ, the additive pack sounds like exactly what I'm looking for... and I can save the enzymes for my fresh grapes in fall (just a few vines so a pack meant for a 6 gallon batch might just be about the right size).
Thanks!

 

[monty]

Considering that the Carmenere grapes in Chile were, for many years, thought to be Merlot, I would think your suggestion is a fine one.

And do you think freezing and reusing in the fall is an ok plan?

How much would changing the grape varietal affect the flavor of the wine? Like let's say I added Cabernet Sauvignon grapes instead of the Merlot.

 

[sour_grapes]

This is only my opinion, so consider the source. I think you can freeze and reuse, but you will see only a little benefit. But not zero benefit, so it may be worth doing.

I have made second-run wine, which is where you take the used skins and add acidulated water and sugar, and ferment a second time on these skins. (It is a common practice.) I was warned by someone here (@Stressbaby , I believe), that it may not be worth it, that the second-run wine would be subpar. He was right. However, I did get some decent color, so the skins obviously added something.

I think Cab Sauv would also be a fine choice. I have no way to quantify "how much" it will affect the taste.

 

[Jal5]

I added one American oak spiral to my merlot recently bulk aging. Plan to let it remain checking taste every 2 wks
Joe

 

[Chuck E]

I added one American oak spiral to my merlot recently bulk aging. Plan to let it remain checking taste every 2 wks
Joe

I find the spirals don't add much after 6 weeks. If you want more oak, and you bought a two pack; you may want to add the second one after 5-6 weeks.

 

[porkchopmessiah]

I added tannin complex to the 4 pails from the fall...it remains s to be seen what the overall effect will be

 

[Jal5]

I find the spirals don't add much after 6 weeks. If you want more oak, and you bought a two pack; you may want to add the second one after 5-6 weeks.

It’s my first experiment with oak so I decided to tread lightly on this
One

 

[porkchopmessiah]

Being as grapes werent available for me, I'll be doing buckets again, any ideas for Chilean blends/ratios? I just bottled a malbec from last spring so I'll have that around for a while...just felt like doing something different/Interesting

 

[Venatorscribe]

I also have a Chilean Malbec and a Chilean Merlot that I was thinking about blending. Not all of it - possibly 20 litres and retaining the rest for straight drinking as am partial to Malbec. I was thinking about a 50:50 mix.

 

[mainshipfred]

Being as grapes werent available for me, I'll be doing buckets again, any ideas for Chilean blends/ratios? I just bottled a malbec from last spring so I'll have that around for a while...just felt like doing something different/Interesting

Are you planning on blending pre or post fermentation? I was never comfortable pre since you really don't know what the finished wine will be like. I realize it's done both ways but my preference is waiting until the wines have had a chance to age a bit and then do blending trials. Wines from this years juice will not necessarily be the same as the next.

 

[Venatorscribe]

Post fermentation. I fermented the Malbec in August '18 and the Merlot in Oct'18. I have oak spirals in them at the moment and will blend in September

 

[mainshipfred]

Post fermentation. I fermented the Malbec in August '18 and the Merlot in Oct'18. I have oak spirals in them at the moment and will blend in September

August or September are usually my blending time frames as well. Mostly because I need to make room for the '19s. Like you though I like to keep some single varietals

 

[porkchopmessiah]

Are you planning on blending pre or post fermentation? I was never comfortable pre since you really don't know what the finished wine will be like. I realize it's done both ways but my preference is waiting until the wines have had a chance to age a bit and then do blending trials. Wines from this years juice will not necessarily be the same as the next.

If I blend it would be post ferment...with my fall pails I blended Syrah with Sangiovese 66/33 in a 3gall and then the other way 33/66 in a 5 gal with 1 gall of each to spare with 1 gallon of blended to top off...
Being that I'm trying to learn combined with my palate not being too sophisticated, I'm more concearned with my learning curve than making a few gall of wine that wasnt great, plus odds are I'll drink it anyway