WineXpert Chitosan, Isoglass, or other/nothing

[derunner]

All of the kits I have made so far have used Isinglass. I have a WE Mezza Luna Red that came with Chitosan. I have read even if you are allergic to shellfish, Chitosan should not be an issue, but I don't want to take that chance. My wife may have this allergy as she did break out once after eating soft shell crab. Though since then she has not had issues eating regular crab. But I figure t is not worth the risk using Chitosan. Plus how do I know I won't run into someone drinking my wine who might have a problem.

So can I substitute Isinglass or another clearing agent? Or should I not use anything. I was planning to bulk age this one 3 months before bottling. Is that enough time to clear without a fining agent? FYI the kit had bentonite added at the start.

What is the collective wisdom? Thanks!

 

[SouthernChemist]

Chitosan is a just a polysaccharide derived from glucosamine, which itself is commonly derived from crustaceans. The derivation process is particularly harsh, however, and so it should be no cause for concern for allergies. No protein from crustaceans will survive this process intact. Isinglass is itself a form of collagen derived from the bladders of fish, I believe. It used to be used regularly in food until gelatin became more readily available.

Ultimately, though, the choice is up to you. Wine kits include clarifying agents not because they are necessary but because they advertise them as ready in 'X weeks'. Without clarifying agents, I highly doubt your kit would be clear and ready in 4-6 weeks...in fact, some might say even with clarifying agents that is too short of a time.

 

[BernardSmith]

I am a vegetarian and if I know that someone has used isinglass or chitosan to clear their wine that wine is not for me.

 

[cpfan]

I am a vegetarian and if I know that someone has used isinglass or chitosan to clear their wine that wine is not for me.

Which clearing agents (if any) do you use?

Steve

 

[BernardSmith]

Hi Steve, I use both Bentonite and Sparkolloid.. Both, I believe are mineral based and are not from animals

 

[Tom_S]

I usually just let my wines age for a few months, and they clear on their own. But not everyone has that kind of patience.

 

[cpfan]

Hi Steve, I use both Bentonite and Sparkolloid.. Both, I believe are mineral based and are not from animals

So Sparkolloid would be a possible replacement for the chitosan. Have you used this with red kits?

Steve

 

[derunner]

I usually just let my wines age for a few months, and they clear on their own. But not everyone has that kind of patience.

I was planning to bulk age my whites 3 months and reds 6 months before bottling. Do they usually clear in these time frames with nothing added?

 

[derunner]

So Sparkolloid would be a possible replacement for the chitosan. Have you used this with red kits?

Steve

This gets to part of my question, are fining agents interchangable, or are some for whites and some for reds.

If i bulk age 3 months for whites and 6 for reds would they clear on their own? And so far I am only talking about kit wines, but want to try others next summer/fall.

 

[wineh]

My wife may have this allergy as she did break out once after eating soft shell crab. Though since then she has not had issues eating regular crab.
What is the collective wisdom? Thanks!

It is likely that the breakout was caused by something other than the crab, as you say she has eaten shellfish since. However, if you think of it in a different way, if you use Chitosan, and she reacts to it, that's 29 3/4 bottles for you!

 

[cpfan]

This gets to part of my question, are fining agents interchangable, or are some for whites and some for reds.

Winexpert seems to provide isinglass for whites and chitosan for reds. Many Vineco red wine kits include isinglass, so you presumably could substitute that for the chitosan. Obviously they are two different companies with different formulations, even though they are owned by the same company (Global Vintners).

BTW, you should email your question to Winexpert perhaps they have a stock answer.

BernardSmith mentioned Sparkolloid. I have used it with a few kits (all RJ Spagnols Orchard Breezin, I believe). This was a few years ago when there some problems clearing the OB kits with the standard clearing agent. I never tried sparkolloid instead of the included agent, always after it had failed.

Steve

 

[BernardSmith]

I don't make wine from kits because I am more interested in making wines from fruits and flowers but I read the kit makers' published instructions and have adopted some of their ideas. So I add Bentonite to my primary and add Sparkolloid, if I need to, before I stabilize. But I am making mead , rhubarb and wine from oranges and they seem to be clearing nicely without any help from me. Some cranberry, I was hoping would be ready for Thanksgiving, looks like it may need some assistance...

 

[derunner]

BTW, you should email your question to Winexpert perhaps they have a stock answer.

I sent my question to Wine Expert and they did not answer my question if I could substitute other fining agents, but instead sent this response.

It sounds safe, but there are reports of people who say they had reactions to Chitosan.

WE Response

Hello,
Thank you for your contact. Although the raw material for chitosan is derived from shellfish, the way it is processed completely destroys all proteins. The shells are ground to a fine powder and soaked in sodium hydroxide (essentially lye, the same ingredient in oven cleaner that breaks down the proteins in the material on the wall of a dirty oven). It is processed three times to achieve the grade that we use as a fining agent. What is left is actually a long-chain polysaccharide, a form of sugar that is so complex that it resembles polyester more than actual table sugar.

This process degrades _all_ of the protein in the shells. Proteins are the compounds that cause the allergic reaction in human beings: no protein, no reaction.

The material is so safe that it is currently used in water treatment facilities across Canada and the world: you may have already consumed some. It is even sold as a dietary supplement (it absorbs certain fats in the digestive system, and some people believe it helps with weight loss).

So the chitosan is completely safe.​

 

[derunner]

BTW, here is what WebMD says about chitosan...

Chitosan is POSSIBLY SAFE for most people when taken by mouth short-term (up to six months) or applied to the skin. When taken by mouth, it might cause mild stomach upset, constipation, or gas.

Special Precautions & Warnings:
Pregnancy and breast-feeding: Not enough is known about the use of chitosan during pregnancy and breast-feeding. Stay on the safe side and avoid use.

Shellfish allergy: Chitosan is taken from the outer skeleton of shellfish. There is a concern that people with allergies to shellfish might also be allergic to chitosan. However, people who are allergic to shellfish are allergic to the meat, not the shell. So some experts believe that chitosan may not be a problem for people with shellfish allergy.

 

[derunner]

And here was a study of one patient with a reaction to chitosan ingested as a health food.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16407681

I've replied to WE's email to see how they can be so sure given report of allergic reactions by some.

 

[SouthernChemist]

And here was a study of one patient with a reaction to chitosan ingested as a health food.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16407681

I've replied to WE's email to see how they can be so sure given report of allergic reactions by some.

That is a specific case that could have been caused by several factors. I don't think you can make any generalizations regarding the safety of one product based on that (particularly one that has a long history of being used in winemaking beyond just wine kits and water treatment for over three decades). There are many things considered safe for the vast majority of people that will, in a very few cases, cause some sort of reaction.

Keep in mind that the pack of chitosan included in a kit is not 100% chitosan and is actually a solution in acidified water. If it is similar to chitosan solutions used to treat water/pools, it could be in fact less than 1% chitosan.

 

[derunner]

That is a specific case that could have been caused by several factors. I don't think you can make any generalizations regarding the safety of one product based on that (particularly one that has a long history of being used in winemaking beyond just wine kits and water treatment for over three decades). There are many things considered safe for the vast majority of people that will, in a very few cases, cause some sort of reaction.

Keep in mind that the pack of chitosan included in a kit is not 100% chitosan and is actually a solution in acidified water. If it is similar to chitosan solutions used to treat water/pools, it could be in fact less than 1% chitosan.

I don't know that this is the only case, it just looked like the most scientific reference I easily found. And agree this is different as normally it is a used in wine making as a small amount in solution added to 6 gals of wine. And this person was consuming it directly.

Though in other discussions I read, a commercial vinyard said they are not allowed to use it in the US in wines for sale. Is that correct?

Wine Expert replied to my followup on if other fining agents could be use and their reply was....

You can add Isinglass or nothing if you wish. The batch may clear in the bottle if you do not add a fining agent.

We do not recommend using Sparkalloid in our kits.

Chitosan would not be used in our kits if nor would it be use in any Canadian Water Treatment facilities if it posed a health hazard.

The isinglass we use is actually a by-product of a food-fishery done in South America. The fish in question is a fresh water species of whitefish, technically known as a ‘Cichlid’. The swim bladders are harvested and dried. Later they are shipped to North America, where they are purified, dried again with liquid nitrogen, pulverised to a powder, and then mixed into a low-pH solution to be used as finings. It is a scaled fish, not a shellfish. Winexpert white and blush kits are usually supplied with isinglass.
​

 

[wineh]

And agree this is different as normally it is a used in wine making as a small amount in solution added to 6 gals of wine. And this person was consuming it directly.

To keep it simple, not only is the Chitosan "a small amount in solution added to 6 gals of wine", it is the stuff that the sediment in your wine 'sticks to' and falls out of solution. At that point, you rack your wine off of the sediment, and remove 99% or more of the Chitosan with it.

 

[Tom_S]

I was planning to bulk age my whites 3 months and reds 6 months before bottling. Do they usually clear in these time frames with nothing added?

They should clear quite a bit by then. I think a really good rule of thumb would be 6 months for whites and a year for reds, though I've bottled a red wine at 6 months and it turned out really good. I don't think those bottles had much sediment by that time.

 

[derunner]

They should clear quite a bit by then. I think a really good rule of thumb would be 6 months for whites and a year for reds, though I've bottled a red wine at 6 months and it turned out really good. I don't think those bottles had much sediment by that time.

Since their second reply said I could use isinglass on the reds, I thought I would do that instead of the chitosan, which should speed it up vs using nothing? 2 of my white wines look very clear after a month of aging beyond the normal 5-6 week kit time. it will be interesting to seem how much drops out of them the next couple months. Maybe I'll end up aging them longer if they still are not clear.

I'd like to get something bottled so perhaps if these look OK at 3-4 months I'll bottle and then plan to age the future batches longer since I'll have something to drink. Similarly I was planning to do some red table wines that I thought I might bottle earlier than the better kits I plan to do.