Cleanliness

[Retrah]

I read about issues here that are due to carelessness with cleanliness. Here is what I do every time and all the time. If anyone has more or better suggestions they will add them. I know this process has not let me down yet. I use "1 step no rinse cleaner" manufactured by LD Carlson. It is only $3.00 per canister and makes several gallons. I have been told by some pals that I am anal about cleanliness and it is not needed. The same fellas have both lost wine to contamination. I put to much effort, time and money into my wine to let it be ruined by bacteria. When starting out I wash my fermentation bucket and rinse way more than needed. Soap taste will crap out a batch of wine. Then I rinse with the sanitizer solution. Just make sure all areas are rinsed with the solution. I rinse the cover also. I even rinse the airlock if using one. When stirring I always rinse the spoon. When checking the SG and TA I rinse all equipment including the wine thief. If it touches my wine I rinse it. When racking I rinse the carboy with water then use the sanitizer to make sure all surfaces are rinsed. I sanitize the syphon and hose inside and out. After each container is emptied I rinse with water immediately then rinse with sanitizer. When time to use that container again I rinse with water then sanitize again. When bottling time comes I wash every bottle with hot soapy water. I rinse the bottles several times to be sure all soap residue is gone. I then use the dishwasher rack to let them drain. I put three gallons of water in the sink that I have already washed and rinsed very good then add the appropriate amount of sanitizer and make sure it is dissolved. Now I take my bottles off the drainer and rinse each one in the sanitizer. Then I put them back on the rack. When corking I rinse the corks in the solution and put them in a strainer which has been sanitized. I will take a paper towel and soak it in the solution and sanitize my floor corker where the bottles touch and rinse the cork plunger also. I even sanitize the handle as I will be touching corks. Now some people will think this is all obvious but to the beginner it may not seem necessary to do all this effort just to be clean. You cannot over do cleanliness but it is easy to under do it. If you take some time and care while handling your wine you will be confident a year or two later when time to open the bottle of wine that you made and bottled that it will be enjoyable for you and your friends.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[Rocky]

You are doing fine. Most careful people do something similar only differing in the product they use for cleaning (getting rid of dirt and grim) and sanitizing (getting rid of bacteria and mold). I have not used a one step product and I know that many people do. I use Oxyclean for cleaning and potassium metabisulfite solution for sanitizing, mixed in a ratio of one gallon of water to 3 tablespoons of K-meta. As you point out, rinsing is a key. I do not rinse the corks with any type of solution, rather I have them in a container that keeps the corks above the sanitizing solution, allowing the gas emitted by the K-meta solution to sanitize the corks.

It does not hurt to overdo cleaning and sanitizing. It only hurts to underdo it.

 

[cimbaliw]

My what a write up! Sounds pretty similar to what I do. For sanitizing, just before fermenting, racking or bottling I have a large, low profile sterlite container that I use as a K meta "gas chamber." Each piece of tubing, air lock, racking cane etc. gets sprayed and dumped in the bucket. Hope this is usable to you it's nice to have a bucket o goods ready to use.

 

[Retrah]

I like that idea. When a tool is needed it is ready to go. You sold me on that one. I like how you called it the gas chamber. Good one.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[DoctorCAD]

I'd really like to see any posts that show that an "unclean" process wrecked a wine.

Not saying that clean is not the way to go, but I've been to major wineries and have seen them take a wine thief off a wall, rinse it in tap water and stick it into a full barrel for a sample. No k-meta, no one-step, no sanitizing. If they are not too worried about "contaminating" an entire barrel, then I think a 6 gallon carboy is OK.

 

[Retrah]

I have to disagree with you about cleanliness. I have to add a disclaimer about my two pals that did ruin some wine however. Their entire batch was not ruined but they lost several bottles. That was due to not cleaning bottles thoroughly. I will not take a chance on ruining my wine after so much time and effort. Does anyone have any experiences with lost batches? I will always be clean with my process. The beauty of this forum is there is so much experience here and every person has their own methods. I have learned much here and appreciate every persons opinion and experiences shared.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[Retrah]

OK Doc. I did some reading on this site and read many of your posts. You are very knowledgable about wine making. It is so kind of you to share your wealth of knowledge so freely and willingly. I have only been involved with wine making for three years so I feel foolish saying I disagree with you on any thing. I still will continue my cleanliness but just want to not appear a know it all. Thank you for contributing to this forum as often as you do.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[Rocky]

Good call, Retrah. I would continue to err on the side of caution. The cost is minimal, the reward is high and losing a batch to a malignant mold or bacteria is devastating.

 

[JohnT]

my take on it is that equipment only needs to be clean BEFORE it is to be used. i do rinse and cleanse everything after use, but not to the point of being sterile. the kmeta comes out just before use.

erring on the side of caution, on the other hand, may not help but it certainly wont hurt.

 

[Boatboy24]

Like JohnT, I clean AFTER use, and sanitize BEFORE use.

I keep a gallon or so of KMeta solution around in various vessels: a spray bottle, "gas chambers", and other vessels. Carboys always have a little in them with a solid stopper for anywhere from a day to a week prior to use. Same with the fermenter, fitted with the lid and an airlock. My gas chambers (2) store corks, and equipment - hoses, stoppers, airlocks. racking canes and larger items are given a spritz a few minutes before use.

Retrah: be careful wiping down that corker (or any other metal) with the KMeta. Be sure to follow with fresh water, as the kMeta can quickly corrode metal.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I'm not stating that cleaning isn't important. It is, but the VAST majority of "ruined" wines come from people behaving like people normally do and deciding to do something "different". Adding 9 pounds of sugar to a Island Mist kit "to make it stronger" has probably ruined more wine than a non-sterile spoon handle.

Heck, prisoners make wine in a toilet! Not that I would ever be in that situation to try any, I hope.

 

[Tom_S]

I couldn't imagine what prison toilet hooch would taste like.

 

[Retrah]

I work in a prison. They call the prison wine "spud". It is horrible smelling and that is how we find it. Got to taste horrible but they are after alcohol and that is all. Gross stuff. Cleanliness is not an issue to them.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[cooldood]

I clean and sanitize before and after.
No rinse sanitizers like starsan will come back to life once re-hydrated. So I have a tool that has been sanitized and sitting on the bench for awhile it still has some level of protection.

 

[Wiz]

You got it Retrah.

 

[seth8530]

I admit, my sanitation regiment is not quite that intense. I am sometimes guilty of rinsing off hydrometers and spoons with hot water prior to contacting the wine with them and then soaping them afterwords. That being said, I have not been bitten by it yet.... *Knock on wood*. That being said, I imagine you are better off being on the side of caution than not..

Seth

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Resanitizing things that are already santitized is a lot of extra work, once a carboy is sanatized, drip dried, with a paper towel plug in it to keep out dust its good to go for immediate use. I dont like the idea of dishwasher drainers, food has been in there and all over the place including grease, better to have a bottle drier dedicated to just bottles. And those guys using KM, I hope you are adding some acid to lower to pH for the KM to be much more active than just adding KM to water.

Retrah, when you say soapy do you mean like dishwashing soapy or are you describing one step as being soapy?

WVMJ

 

[GreginND]

I always get in trouble when I respond to these threads because I tend to agree with the good DoctorCAD.

First, let me state that CLEAN is super important. And I am not advocating anyone not follow what they have learned as proper protocols for sanitation and cleanliness.

But I have used plenty a clean bucket/carboy/hose/stirrer, etc. without sanitizing other than rinsing with hot water and have had zero problems with my wine due to contaminations.

If you think about the wine making process on scale, tons of fruit are harvested, often by machine, in the field complete with bugs, molds, bird *&@#, and maybe even a few little critters. They get sorted and crushed, sometimes washed, but certainly not made aseptically clean. They are dosed with SO2 to keep the nasties from taking over. Wine is then fermented into an alcoholic liquid with a low pH. This, itself, is preservative and pathogens harmful to humans cannot live in it. Spoilage pathogens can, however. That is why we maintain proper levels of SO2 in the wine.

No amount of sanitation of buckets/carboys/tanks will make the product you put into it any cleaner than it is. And when you maintain your wine properly for aging, IT is essentially a sanitizer.

Now, success depends on maintaining a clean environment where bad bugs don't get a foothold and permeate the premises. You don't want acetobacter living around your wine area, for example. THUS, sanitation is an important step to keep your area clean.

I hope this makes sense. My main point is that we need to keep cleanliness and sanitation in mind all the time but for goodness sake, we don't need to go overboard unless you have an infection problem in your area.

So, if you happened to stir your must with a paddle that you forgot to spritz with K-meta - relax. You are not likely to destroy your wine.

 

[Retrah]

Mountaneer Jack, when I talked about soapy I was referring to
dishwashing soap. Greg, sure makes sense about the fruit not being clean. I of coarse wash all my fruit but certainly don't sanitize it. I will continue to be clean. I don't find that it is all that much work. When using the dishwasher, I wash the racks with soapy water, rinse thoroughly then sanitize. I am at the point where I am needing a dedicated tree for my bottles for sure. Thanks for the input.


Fermenting is fun!

 

[Tom_S]

Was it on this forum or another wine making forum where someone related the horror story of a friend of his who also made wine, but in his dirty garage with mice crawling around the airlocks and depositing their waste around them? That guy apparently had appalling sanitary methods and never made good wine.