Due to space and temperature issues, I've had to cold stabilize my new Rose in the same fridge that I was using for my wine color. It's been a constant 54 degrees but now this new batch of Rose has to cold stabilize and I don't have a place to put some Pinot Noir bottles. Is it safe to keep the Pinot Noir in the 32 degrees after it's been in the 54 for a couple months? In theory to me it seems like it would be ok so the summarized question would be can you take a bottle of Pinot Noir and put it at 54 degrees for 2 months, then to 32 degrees for 3 weeks then back to 54 for the remainder of time? Thanks.
Cold Stabilize then 54 Degrees then Cold Stabilize Again?
- Thread starter rebusify
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
No, I would not. In fact, I don’t cold stabilize unless I have a reason to, like to remove acid from an overly acidic wine. My wine is bulk aged at the same temps it will be stored when bottled, so any precip that is going to occur, has. Chilling it to 32 after bottling will drop out acid, which will stay in your bottle.
Spencerthebuilder
Member
John, will you explain how cold stabilizing will cause acids to settle? Did I misunderstand? Acid in sediments? I ask as the fall batch will need to be stored in an unheated garage. Just about to rack off primary. Bulk ageing. Presently about 62*. Not much nightly temperature swings, but it will only get colder..... How cold is too cold?
Cab Sav.
PinotNoir
Sauvingnon blanc
Cab Sav.
PinotNoir
Sauvingnon blanc
Simplistically, the ability of a liquid to maintain solutes in solution is variable, and in part dependent upon temperature. This is why we can heat up water and dissolve a large amount of sugar into it, compared to how much will dissolve into room temperature water. Same is true with wine. Wine is more complex than water, but just grasp the concept for the moment.
Drop the temperature of a wine, and some of the components will precipitate out of solution as its ability to maintain the solute in solution decreases. When we make wine at room temps, in the 70's or so, there are components that are perfectly stable at that temp. If you age your wine at 75, bottle at 75, then put it into the cellar or fridge at 55F or 34F, odds are that some of the tartaric acid will precipitate out and form what we call wine diamonds. More will precipitate out at 32F than at 55F. If you cellar your red wines at 55F like I do, it makes sense to bulk age them at that temp or slightly lower, to allow that precipitation to take place prior to bottling. Wine diamonds aren't a fault, but I don't like them in my wines, so I let it happen naturally prior to bottling. So, you could say that my wines are "cold stable" down to 55F, but if they were put into a fridge at 34F, precipitation would likely occur, and change the pH and TA of the wine.
Given the above, CS at or slightly below cellar / storage temps makes sense to prevent precipitation in your bottles. CS is also a tool that we can employ to remove acid from wine that we feel is too acidic. It's not about trying to make your wine stable at cellar temps, it's about modifying the acidity in the wine. Lots of folks will CS their wines down to near freezing to precipitate as much of the acid out as they can, in an effort to reduce the acidity. (Sidebar, a wine with a pH higher than 3.6 will see an increase in pH with this activity, but a wine with a pH lower than 3.6 will actually see its pH decrease. It's a complex chemical reaction, you can look it up on line if you're interested). This will also remove the potential for wine diamonds. Many commercial wine producers, particularly white wines, CS their wines near freezing because they can't afford to have wine diamonds form in their bottles, and they have no control how cold customers will store their wine once they take it home. Many consumers stick wines in the fridge at 34F, despite the fact that it's way too cold to serve. It is also true that cold temps can help your wine clear, but time will generally do the trick there as well.
All of that said, if you want your wine to be stable regardless of the storage temp, go ahead and CS it at 32F before bottling, but the wine in bottles will precipitate in the bottles, and know that it will affect the acidity of the wine, and potentially the taste. If you are endeavoring to affect the acidity, it's a great tool to use, but CS down to 32F is not necessarily a "standard step" in the creation of wine.
So for the three wines you listed, the two reds wouldn't mind being stored in the low 50's for a while, and they'd be stable for normal cellar temps for reds, and you probably won't lose much acidity. Whites are usually stored and served cooler than reds, so if they got down below 50 during the winter, they'd be stable at white wine cellar temps, but not if you stick them in the fridge at 34F. Tried not to make this too complicated........make sense???
Spencerthebuilder
Member
Makes perfect sense. thanks. Always thought of CS to help with clarifying, but never for acid control. If planning on colder bulk storage, (cold winter garage) might one lower the Ph of the must? Or add tartaric at 2nd racking maybe?
Will diamonds go back into solution if allowed to warm for a few weeks?
Also as it is also refrigeration, CS must also retard spoilage, thus allow a reduction or elimination of sufites?
So if acids are correctly balanced to taste for room temperature, CS will damage the wine. Certainly change it. And those precipitates discarded as lees (2nd and 3rd rackings) must be also discarding fruit flavors? Less full bodied reds? Again, thanks
Will diamonds go back into solution if allowed to warm for a few weeks?
Also as it is also refrigeration, CS must also retard spoilage, thus allow a reduction or elimination of sufites?
So if acids are correctly balanced to taste for room temperature, CS will damage the wine. Certainly change it. And those precipitates discarded as lees (2nd and 3rd rackings) must be also discarding fruit flavors? Less full bodied reds? Again, thanks
Last edited:
Makes perfect sense. thanks. Always thought of CS to help with clarifying, but never for acid control. If planning on colder bulk storage, (cold winter garage) might one lower the Ph of the must? Or add tartaric at 2nd racking maybe? You'll just have to check the wine and see how it tastes, could be that the reduction isn't any big deal.....
Will diamonds go back into solution if allowed to warm for a few weeks? I do not know this, I always rack off of the precipitate.
Also as it is also refrigeration, CS must also retard spoilage, thus allow a reduction or elimination of sufites? I wouldn't take a chance, and sulfite also ******* oxidation.
So if acids are correctly balanced to taste for room temperature, CS will damage the wine. Certainly change it. And those precipitates discarded as lees (2nd and 3rd rackings) must be also discarding fruit flavors? Less full bodied reds? Again, thanks. Again, if you only CS down to storage temps, you won't remove as much as CS at 32F, maybe it's not even detected. I always adjust my wine after bulk aging, a few months before bottling. I do not believe that allowing CS to precipitate acid would result in a reduction of either fruit flavors or body.
Will diamonds go back into solution if allowed to warm for a few weeks? I do not know this, I always rack off of the precipitate.
Also as it is also refrigeration, CS must also retard spoilage, thus allow a reduction or elimination of sufites? I wouldn't take a chance, and sulfite also ******* oxidation.
So if acids are correctly balanced to taste for room temperature, CS will damage the wine. Certainly change it. And those precipitates discarded as lees (2nd and 3rd rackings) must be also discarding fruit flavors? Less full bodied reds? Again, thanks. Again, if you only CS down to storage temps, you won't remove as much as CS at 32F, maybe it's not even detected. I always adjust my wine after bulk aging, a few months before bottling. I do not believe that allowing CS to precipitate acid would result in a reduction of either fruit flavors or body.
![[Upgraded] 9Pcs Tree Root Growing Box with Drain Holes, Half Transparent Plant Rooting Propagation Ball & Metal Core Twist Ties, for Fast Propagation Plants (Size M)](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/514MWQxtWOL._SL500_.jpg)
@Johnd's explanation is spot-on.
My early wine making was using Finger Lakes (New York, USA) grapes, which are typically high in acid. The temperature of my enclosed porch was typically 34 F in the winter, so I'd place my carboys on the porch for 7 to 10 days. Once acid crystals formed, I'd rack the the wine before letting it warm up. [I watched the temperature forecast, as if the temp dropped below 0 F, my porch would get colder. Frozen wine, unless you're drinking it immediately, is not good.]
In hindsight, I realize I should have tasted the wine periodically to avoid removing too much acid. In my case, the grapes were high enough in acid that it was never a problem. However, if I was doing CS today, I'd check taste much as I would with other techniques, such as aging on oak.
Some of the tartaric will re-dissolve in the wine if allowed to warm up before racking. How much? This depends on the acid saturation, temperature, and probably other factors.
The guys that taught me used CS for acid reduction. Clarification was a bonus, but not the prime purpose. They did CS only with NY grapes, not with the Zinfandel and Muscat that arrived by train from California. Given the above points, I'd not use the practice unless I needed to reduce acid.
But if you're storing the wine below 60 F, I agree with Johnd that it's wise to bulk age at that temperature to avoid crystals in the bottle.
My early wine making was using Finger Lakes (New York, USA) grapes, which are typically high in acid. The temperature of my enclosed porch was typically 34 F in the winter, so I'd place my carboys on the porch for 7 to 10 days. Once acid crystals formed, I'd rack the the wine before letting it warm up. [I watched the temperature forecast, as if the temp dropped below 0 F, my porch would get colder. Frozen wine, unless you're drinking it immediately, is not good.]
In hindsight, I realize I should have tasted the wine periodically to avoid removing too much acid. In my case, the grapes were high enough in acid that it was never a problem. However, if I was doing CS today, I'd check taste much as I would with other techniques, such as aging on oak.
Some of the tartaric will re-dissolve in the wine if allowed to warm up before racking. How much? This depends on the acid saturation, temperature, and probably other factors.
The guys that taught me used CS for acid reduction. Clarification was a bonus, but not the prime purpose. They did CS only with NY grapes, not with the Zinfandel and Muscat that arrived by train from California. Given the above points, I'd not use the practice unless I needed to reduce acid.
But if you're storing the wine below 60 F, I agree with Johnd that it's wise to bulk age at that temperature to avoid crystals in the bottle.
