Confused about the Carboy!!

[jswordy]

I've got 3 from the early 70s. I use only glass because it's 100% inert.

The times problems arise from glass are often when the vintner may have sampled too many glasses while doing his work or when tools are being misused. Work sober, don't try to make a carboy neck handle carry the full weight of wine and use due caution about how you wash and handle glass and what you set it on, and you'll probably never break a carboy.

Brew Haulers are my favorite tool and can be had cheap on Amazon. Some use plastic milk jugs instead to carry carboys.

 

[jimmyjames23]

OMG! I use plastic milk cartons for hauling.

I recently switched to those big 6 gallon beer brew pails as Demi holders. The 6 1/2 gallon fits in it perfectly and allows me to rock the carboy to assist in vacuum degassing and blocks all light from the sides.

 

[Tess]

thanks for the plastic Milk carton tip. I will do that for sure. I ordered a better boy because tigers blood has me racking a few times into another carboy. I really would prefer to stay with glass. Plastic is killing us, leaching out poisons. I have the degassing rod

 

[Bartman]

I really would prefer to stay with glass. Plastic is killing us, leaching out poisons. I have the degassing rod

I have to disagree that food grade plastic containers leach out 'poisons'. That's part of why plastic is graded - some would leach, but those aren't food-grade (typically, food storage plastic is "HDPE" or "2" in the recycling triangle). Plastics with BPA (Bisphenol A) are the ones to watch out for, and those are typically one-time-use bottles (with a "1" in the recycling triangle). Not all plastic leaches chemicals nor is it all okay for food/drink storage - but knowing which is which is not always easy.

As Jim said above, breaking a glass carboy is not common, but it happened to me and left me with a scar on my forearm (I was cleaning it after emptying it but it slipped out of my hands into the sink about 4" inches, shattering and cutting across my arms and fingers somewhat).

 

[bchilders]

I just put into use my first Better Boy. Label Peelers is running a sale, just under $21/5gl & 22/6gl. I other wise use glass and since I ferment and age in my dinning room I have to carry and lift to kitchen island for racking. I have already seen one disadvantage with plastic and that is the flex they have when you try to pick one up. If you used the carboy handle the bottle gives from the weight of the wine and air will get sucked in so it is a good idea to use a solid bung to move one and the replace it with a holed one and air lock.

 

[brandywine]

I think it just depends on your personal preference -glass or plastic. Glass is more economic (plastic is cheaper but won`t last as long as glass; plus plastic is polluting our oceans and killing wildlife), and regardless of what others say, all plastics leech chemicals, especially when boiling water is added to the equation. If you take the proper precautions, your carboy will not explode.

 

[Tess]

I have to disagree that food grade plastic containers leach out 'poisons'. That's part of why plastic is graded - some would leach, but those aren't food-grade (typically, food storage plastic is "HDPE" or "2" in the recycling triangle). Plastics with BPA (Bisphenol A) are the ones to watch out for, and those are typically one-time-use bottles (with a "1" in the recycling triangle). Not all plastic leaches chemicals nor is it all okay for food/drink storage - but knowing which is which is not always easy.

As Jim said above, breaking a glass carboy is not common, but it happened to me and left me with a scar on my forearm (I was cleaning it after emptying it but it slipped out of my hands into the sink about 4" inches, shattering and cutting across my arms and fingers somewhat).

I just read a big article on water and soda bottles leaching. Somehow I don't think a better boy is any better lol
Either way, to each their own. I just bought a better boy because its was cheaper and I have to rack this serveral times into another carboy. I needed one fast and cheap. I doubt I will buy another plastic one. Lifting the glass ones in milk cartons sounds like the way to go to me

 

[saramc]

I have to disagree that food grade plastic containers leach out 'poisons'. That's part of why plastic is graded - some would leach, but those aren't food-grade (typically, food storage plastic is "HDPE" or "2" in the recycling triangle). Plastics with BPA (Bisphenol A) are the ones to watch out for, and those are typically one-time-use bottles (with a "1" in the recycling triangle).

A '1' has nothing to do with one time use. #1 containers are made of PET/PETE. Most manufacturers intend for consumers to use each bottle once but the American Chemistry Council states that it is okay to reuse these #1 coded bottles, after washing them. Many PET bottles are difficult to clean and may leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals when exposed to high temperatures
#2 HDPE are also approved for reuse.
It is my understanding that any polypropylene containers may have BPA-related issues. Many may recall the #7 coded baby bottles.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/168503-which-plastics-are-safe-to-reuse/

*Sara*

 

[jswordy]

There is a legitimate scientific debate over leaching, to what degree it happens and what effect it has. I have read articles about it, and my wife is especially well-versed to the point of being an expert, which is why you will not find food stored in any plastic at our house. My expert wife reports that endocrine-like chemicals are also leached into our fingertips when we type on a plastic computer keyboard, and we breathe them inside our cars.

I have found that generally, people who make alcohol are not too worried about this issue as long as taste/quality are not affected. There still remains the question of whether alcohol influences the leaching process, even in food grade equipment. I'm no expert on it. I use glass for secondary because it is an inert liquid and the wine has long exposure to it, but I am doing primary in a Brute garbage can - so there ya go.

Usually, discussions about leaching turn into stalemates. So please, use what ya want. There are other qualities about each carboy that make it a good fit for you or not.

Thanks, jimmiejames, for correcting me on "milk jugs" - I intended to say the plastic containers that hold milk jugs.

 

[UBB]

I have broke 2 glass carboys. One I dropped on a cement floor and the other I didn;t wait long enough after taking out of cold stabilization and ran hot water in it to rinse it out. Both operator error.

 

[Bartman]

A '1' has nothing to do with one time use. #1 containers are made of PET/PETE. Most manufacturers intend for consumers to use each bottle once but the American Chemistry Council states that it is okay to reuse these #1 coded bottles, after washing them. Many PET bottles are difficult to clean and may leach endocrine-disrupting chemicals when exposed to high temperatures.

*Sara*

I agree completely. The numeral 1 is simply the coding for that type of plastic, it has nothing to do with 'one-time-use' although I can see how someone might think that.

While plastic may have some leaching issues that will take years to (perhaps) conclusively determine, why is glass implicitly beyond any doubt or concern? I have no reason to believe that glass leaches anything, but we might as well be equal-opportunity skeptics.

 

[Tess]

Does anyone know where better boys are manufactured? Not China I hope!!

 

[GreginND]

Better Bottles are made from polyethylene. They are listed as BPA free as well as free of phthalate plasticizers. BPA is not used in PE. It is used in polycarbonate or epoxy resins and is more of a problem in PVC.

 

[jswordy]

Guess it's time to post a link!

http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9923955

or

http://www.nafaa.org/ethanol.pdf

12% alcohol = 120,000 parts per million.

UNDER EDIT: Ah, Greg, you stepped in it! See, it is not that cut and dried... ::

http://plastipure.com/most-bpa-free...als-having-significant-estrogenic-activity-ea

But you get points for saying the pipes in my house leach more BPA than a plastic carboy.

Oh yeah, see sig below...LOL...

 

[Dugger]

One other factor to be considered that has not been mentioned is the volume of each type. I'm guessing that most, if not all, new glass carboys are the ribbed Italian ones which are supposed to be be 23 litres but are actually closer to 24 litres which is a problem for topping up. I have not used a better bottle but I think they are closer to the actual 23 litres so this might influence your decision as well.

 

[BernardSmith]

Sure, the first line of the OP: "Was going to buy the glass carboy because I thought it would be better."

How does one scratch the inside of a better bottle plastic carboy?? If it's from over-aggressive degassing, that's just one more reason to let time and patience degas gently.

I think that if use a carboy brush inside Better Bottles to clean them you are very likely to scratch the surface.

 

[GreginND]

UNDER EDIT: Ah, Greg, you stepped in it! See, it is not that cut and dried... ::

http://plastipure.com/most-bpa-free...als-having-significant-estrogenic-activity-ea

But you get points for saying the pipes in my house leach more BPA than a plastic carboy.

Oh yeah, see sig below...LOL...

Yeah. I did step in it! Actually all I did was say that better bottles claim to be BPA and Phthalate free. I wasn't promoting them. That article you link is very interesting and confusing. Thanks for pointing me to it. They talk about nearly all plastics leaching endocrine activity compounds but they don't say what those compounds are. They list several different polymers and the monomers they are made from. PE is listed as having no endocrine activity. It appears they are using a cell based assay to determine endocrine activity but haven't identified what is actually causing the effect. I need to read it more carefully to try to figure out how they are doing their experiments. Something doesn't add up.

For the record, I am writing a grant proposal right now on developing non-endocrine active BPA replacements from biorenewable resources. It is a new field for me and I'm trying to learn all I can about it. I was only considering BPA but if nearly everything has endocrine activity, it gets more complicated. Wish I knew what they were detecting.

Also, for the record, I prefer glass - this being one of several reasons.

 

[Bartman]

But you get points for saying the pipes in my house leach more BPA than a plastic carboy.

I don't know how old your house is, but it almost certainly does not have PVC pipe for your water lines. Sewer lines, probably, but not fresh water coming in. That's typically copper (built in the -'60s -'90s, varies by region) or lead in much older homes. The *new* thing is "cross-linked polyethylene flexible plastic pipe," commonly referred to as “PEX.”

Different type of plastic, and it is hardly mentioned in the linked research paper.

So - Back to drinkin'...

 

[Tess]

copper for hot water, polyethylene flexible plastic pipe for cold. Its just more economical that way.

 

[jswordy]

I don't know how old your house is, but it almost certainly does not have PVC pipe for your water lines. Sewer lines, probably, but not fresh water coming in. That's typically copper (built in the -'60s -'90s, varies by region) or lead in much older homes. The *new* thing is "cross-linked polyethylene flexible plastic pipe," commonly referred to as “PEX.”

Different type of plastic, and it is hardly mentioned in the linked research paper.

So - Back to drinkin'...

You are incorrect. Water lines vary by region. In the South, many houses have PVC and CPVC water lines, mine included. I had them installed myself to replace galvanized. My well supply is PVC and I use CPVC for hot and cold water. It is uber-common in Southern states, but cannot be used up North in crawlspaces, etc., due to the extreme cold there. Older homes down South are typically galvanized, for which I have zero use. Older copper installations are around but not common, as you had to be rich to afford it. My experience in this ranges from Virginia through Tennessee and Alabama.