Creeping Corks

[scurry64]

I bottled 2 kits this weekend. I'm 100% certain that fermentation was complete. I'm less certain that were completely degassed.

I used a floor corker and 9 X 1.5" synthetic polymer corks. At the time of corking all the corks were at or below the lip of the bottle. When I applied the shrink wraps, however, the corks sat ~0.25" above the lip of the bottle. The corks haven' moved since then.

Could there be too much CO2 in suspension (not likely because not every bottle/cork is affected)? Could I have overfilled some of the bottles? Should I do anything to remediate the situation? Has this happened to anyone else?

See the pics below. Thanks for your help.

 

[Johnd]

I bottled 2 kits this weekend. I'm 100% certain that fermentation was complete. I'm less certain that were completely degassed.

I used a floor corker and 9 X 1.5" synthetic polymer corks. At the time of corking all the corks were at or below the lip of the bottle. When I applied the shrink wraps, however, the corks sat ~0.25" above the lip of the bottle. The corks haven' moved since then.

Could there be too much CO2 in suspension (not likely because not every bottle/cork is affected)? Could I have overfilled some of the bottles? Should I do anything to remediate the situation? Has this happened to anyone else?

See the pics below. Thanks for your help.

From what I can see, it looks like they might be overfilled, as I can't see the wine level below the shrink capsule. A 1.5" cork plus proper air space means the fill line should be visible. Typical fill level for my wines on the same type of bottle is 1/2" or so into the neck.

 

[bchilders]

Hi Scurry64, I have also had this to happen, I haven even seen it with some smaller commercial wineries. I believe it is a combination of the cork and the bottle. I notice it more with the 1.5" corks like you used and I now use the 1.75" cork which seems to help. I have also noticed with some of mine that do this it does not matter how many times I re-cork it still creeps up leading me to believe it is the bottle and the neck is too large for the cork. I should also note that my fill line was below the cork so that was not an issue. I have never had a bottle go bad as a result of cork creeping but then they never stay around more than a year after bottling. I think these will be fine. Buy some natural 1.75" and do a side by side comparison next time and just see it that makes a difference

Do you use new bottles or recycled bottles?
Do you wet the corks before corking?

 

[David219]

I've had corks creep on dry wines that were not well degassed, but only in an instance of having the wine left in a very hot place for a while (inside a car during the summer).
Maybe a silly question, but are you sure the corks have pushed up? Sometimes the shrink wraps will lift up as they shrink and create an air space above the cork and bottle top. Have you felt the top of the shrink wrap?

 

[scurry64]

Do you use new bottles or recycled bottles?
Do you wet the corks before corking?

The bottles were new and the corks were dry.

but are you sure the corks have pushed up? Sometimes the shrink wraps will lift up as they shrink and create an air space above the cork and bottle top. Have you felt the top of the shrink wrap?

I checked.

 

[GreginND]

I think I agree with John. Do not underestimate the power of hydraulics. You need to have some air space between the cork and the wine. If there is very little air, when you insert the cork, you place an awful lot of pressure on it. It will push it's way up. Commercially I fill my bottles to no more than 1/2 inch above the shoulder.

Are you using a floor corker or a hand corker? A floor corker will work better as it squeezes the cork tighter for insertion allowing any air pressure to escape as it's being pushed in. I think you are also putting more pressure on the air head space using a hand corker because it expands sooner as it's going in.

 

[scurry64]

I left out 2 important pieces of information that probably go hand in hand.

1. This has never happened to me before; and
2. This was the first time I used the All In One Pump to bottle wine.

I was getting inconsistent fill volumes with the All In One Pump. I strongly suspect it was due to operator error because the All In One Pump is supposed to produce the same result every time. Perhaps I just need more practice. (?)

 

[Floandgary]

With Johnd and Greg,,,,, "physics", You need sufficient airspace to prevent over-pressure. Practice some more and get a correct/consistent fill level. Those shown which have pushed out a bit should not pose a problem.

 

[scurry64]

This pic indicates the results I was getting throughout the bottling process.

 

[terrymck]

Is the sending carboy lower than the receiving bottle? If not then the excess wine will not flow back.

 

[Johnd]

This pic indicates the results I was getting throughout the bottling process.

Of the three bottles closest to the front, the two on the sides are just fine, the one in the middle will be a problem.

Whenever you insert a cork into a bottle, you pressurize the little airspace between the underside of the cork and the surface of the wine. Liquids do not compress, so the smaller the airspace, the greater the pressure is in there.

With regular "cork" corks, the pressure equalizes, as they breathe enough to allow that to happen. I assume your corks are designed to breathe a bit also. With little or no airspace, the pressure can be enough to overcome the surface friction between the bottle and the cork, which is all that holds them in place. GreginND is dead on, floor corkers help this situation as the compressed cork allows air to escape as it is inserted but not yet expanded. The faster you can insert that compressed cork in to the bottle, the better. Ie: don't push them in slowly. In any case, in the future, with the right amount of airspace, I believe that your problem will disappear.

 

[scurry64]

Is the sending carboy lower than the receiving bottle?

It was. Perhaps it wasn't low enough though. It was on a bench, not the floor. I'll make that adjustment.

floor corkers help this situation

Are you using a floor corker or a hand corker?

I use a Portuguese floor corker.

 

[bchilders]

I left out 2 important pieces of information that probably go hand in hand.

1. This has never happened to me before; and
2. This was the first time I used the All In One Pump to bottle wine.

I was getting inconsistent fill volumes with the All In One Pump. I strongly suspect it was due to operator error because the All In One Pump is supposed to produce the same result every time. Perhaps I just need more practice. (?)

I just bottled 55 bottles this weekend and none of mine corks have creepped up. I no what you mean about the fill line with the All in One. There is an adjustment for that.

I overfilled 5 of the 55 I bottled and was still able to cork them and after two days, the corks are still recessed.

 

[Tnuscan]

I know this isn't the answer to your corks creeping, but this will help on being the same level.

What I did to make them all the same level, was take a large syringe that has nipple on the end, cut a piece of small diameter clear tube, slide over nipple then cut clear tube at the desired fill line. Then just place syringe on top of the bottle, draw up the wine and all the wine will be at the same height. Then put what's in syringe in glass and drink. I try to overfill a little more now, just so I can get a few thimbles full. lol. Cheers!

 

[Pittsburgh127]

I have only noticed this happening to me one time. It was after the first time I used my buon vino super automatic bottle filler. I determined that I didn't not have it adjusted properly and had over filled the bottles. There was only about a quarter inch of space between the wine and the bottom of the corks. I always use #9 (diameter) by 1-3/4 inch (length) ATQ corks, inserted wet and never had it happen before. After adjusting the filler to have about a half inch of space, I've never had it happen again.

 

[bchilders]

It was. Perhaps it wasn't low enough though. It was on a bench, not the floor. I'll make that adjustment.



I use a Portuguese floor corker.

I use the same kind and I added rubber feet to mine to steady it and prevent it from slipping a scratching the floor. I drilled out three solid bungs and ran a small flat head bolt through the bottom and tapped it on top. I was able to tighten the bolts enough to counter sink the head so it does not touch the floor. This allows me to apply plenty of pressure when corking.