Crush day at Crushday's...

[BarrelMonkey]

I believe I can only calibrate it to 4.00, which as previously stated, I did. Between tests, the first few times, I did immerse into the buffer solution and it read 4.00 both times.

Sorry to hear about your experience. And, I assume you replaced the unit. Can you tell me about your replacement?

I didn't bother to replace it, if you mean replace it with another of the same kind. I bought it because I was intrigued but skeptical about the viability of a $10 pH tester, and thought $10 was worth it to tinker around with it and do a few experiments. I'm pretty sure the amazon.com return window has expired now.

After exhaustively overanalyzing the options (as is my wont), I did buy a Milwaukee MW102 for my 'real' pH meter. Although I haven't yet used it on actual wine/juice samples, my first impressions are favorable.

BTW amidst all the pictures I forgot to say that your fruit looks great! Nice clean pick by the look of it too.

 

[Jay A]

Looks great Crushday. I've had similar spontaneous ferments take off while coming out of cold soaks. Identical temps, different grapes, one starts to kick before the other. Much like yourself I added starter ASAP. I always SO2 @ crush, I guess those wild yeast cell can"t wait to get to work?

I estimate ABV as Brix X .54 which puts you around 15%, pretty hot!! I would have watered back as well.

I picked up very similar destemmer in need of some TLC over the winter. Can't wait to try it out. Are you pleased with performance? Looks like great destemming, do many whole berries make it past pump??

Great Thread & thanks for the updates.

 

[Rocktop]

Morning crushday, as this thread has the potential to be epic, and the gold standard for new members wanting to make red wine from grapes would you be willing flush out a little more details?:
- why did you inoculate with 2 yeast?
- why did you decide to co-inoculate mlb while primary fermenting
- what pH and TA were you targeting
- you already spoke to target ABV - and why watering back
- can you give primary fermenting temps?

sorry I know that is a lot to ask of a busy guy but you great at providing details and very humble in your explanation of the ups and downs. Either way I’m excited to be following this thread. I have called my grape supplier twice since your post….I’m getting antsy for grapes! Haha.

have a great day and txs for sharing.
RT

 

[crushday]

Would you be willing flush out a little more details?

- why did you inoculate with 2 yeast? The short answer is: to try something new. But, because that answer is unsatisfactory, I read about using two yeasts as part of a combined ferment over last winter. As you know, native yeast is everywhere and must left alone will ferment on its own. Most winemakers want a little more control over the complexity and wine profile than what a native yeast can/will produce. Some winemakers have let the native ferment begin and then take it over with another yeast (Avante or 1118) inoculated into the must after a few to several days to make sure the job gets completed. I was considering this but continued to research. My reading lead me to Chris Hansen’s Prelude. @4score has used Prelude with notable success and his wines are amazing. First hand experience talking here…. So, I decided to give it a try and @4score very generously provided me with Prelude and I already have Avante on hand as it’s my usual yeast. If you decide to try Prelude, just know that it only will ferment to 9 ABV so another yeast has to be introduced BEFORE you get to 9 ABV otherwise you risk a sluggish or even a stuck fermentation.

- why did you decide to co-inoculate mlb while primary fermenting? To be clear, I have not added the CH16 yet but will in a few days. The reason I do this is because I’m a lemming and that’s what others do. Seriously, that’s the reason. It’s worked well and I’ve always had a complete MLF. Many winemakers don’t introduce MLF until after press and it becomes a true “second fermentation”. I’m sure their reasons are many but mostly because of a commonly held belief that the bacteria and the yeast compete for nutrients - therefore, keep them separate stages. Another important factoid about nutrients: The very first time I used CH16, I had no idea bacteria competed for nutrients and to add something into the must (Opti Malo or Acti-ML). I didn’t add anything and the MLF completed with no problem. So, I’ve never added any MLF nutrients and at this point don’t plan to.

- what pH and TA were you targeting? Of course, each variety is different and others will have differing answers. I’d like the CF to be around 3.8 and the PS 3.6. TA? I’m not too worried about TA.

- you already spoke to target ABV - and why watering back? I watered back because my target ABV is more in the mid 14 range. The original Brix would have 17+ (CF) and 16+ (PS) finished ABV. Another thing to note is the Brix usually climbs a bit overnight as it’s macerating so my Brix would likely be higher today than yesterday.

- can you give primary fermenting temps? My temps yesterday in all six fermentors was 72 to 74. I pitched the yeast because that’s too high for maceration and left alone spoilage is a high probability and the native boys would wake up. I’ll keep the ferment around 80 throughout.

Let me know if you have other questions. Glad to help.

 

[crushday]

Are you pleased with performance? Looks like great destemming, do many whole berries make it past pump?

Yes, very pleased with the performance. Nothing but grapes in the must - very clean. And, upon a quick visual, no whole berries.

When I purchased this unit a few months ago, I was looking at a gravity D/C. The guys at winemakersdepot talked me into this one indicating I would be more pleased with the final must. They described that the grapes are not crushed but go through a series of impellers. So, I guess this is best described as a destemmer/slicer - lol…

 

[Jay A]

Fantastic. I had a steel gravity D/C for years that was showing its age. Even with rollers spaced out process was aggressive on stems & grapes, I ordered repair parts through wine makers depot for recently acquired destemmer, they were extremely helpful. Thanks.

 

[crushday]

Punch #2. CF is beginning to form a cap but only on the sides of the fermentors. That is so strange to me. Juxtaposed to the PS which has a cap so thick I can barely get through it. Amazing…

Added Ch16 but I believe it to be bad. Normally, it’s white/ghoulish gray in color. From the picture you can see that it’s a caramel color. I wasn’t home when it was delivered so I had my wife put it in the freezer. I’m going to have to call Lodi Wine Labs on Tuesday and get a new shipment. Hopefully, they’ll just replace it.

For you who have used CH16 - doesn’t the color seem off?

 

[cmason1957]

I belive that is bad. Send them that picture. I think it has been cooked.

 

[Snafflebit]

For you who have used CH16 - doesn’t the color seem off?

that does not look typical. It always looks like white instant coffee when I use it

Edit: actually. I think that Christoph Hansen 16 had a tan tinge last year. Hmmm maybe it is okay

 

[Johnd]

@Johnd - The shoot looks a bit more ghetto than I was intending. I meant to cut the bottom and the sides of the drum for the shoot LONG before I needed - but, alas…. The bolts I bought were too short as I didn’t accommodate for how the two ends would sit together. So, Irwin wins the day. I do intend on bolting the middle together with stainless bolts, washers and wingers for easy removal. Next time you see that shoot she’ll be perfect.

I was definitely not bashing the chute, in fact, I fancied it a pretty solid idea for customizing the length and slope to fit your exact configuration, and with food grade materials. The chute definitely has my seal of approval, not sure I'd change anything on it unless there was a problem, adding bolts and wing nuts only adds time to disassemble.

I was more interested in how you were moving the must, didn't realize that you had the integral must pump, and it sounds like it works like a charm. As for the cleaning of the unit, I feel your pain, I have the Zambelli stainless model, just without the must pump. I've found that you can pressure wash on it for hours and just keep finding little pockets of grape debris and never really get those suckers out of there. Last crush, I hosed it down well, then removed the housings with a just a few screws, and was able to really get it cleaned out well. That's my process for cleaning now. Just pay attention to the order that it comes apart, it has to go back together in the same order, but it's pretty intuitive.

 

[crushday]

I was definitely not bashing the chute

John, I knew you were not bashing the chute. And, I can't say for sure why I addressed you in that post other than I was just talking to a buddy. Sorry you felt "called out" - not at all my intention.

On the C/D - I'll probably take it apart today just to make sure it's clean. I don't want it getting moldy inside and then pull it out next year for another round...

 

[Johnd]

John, I knew you were not bashing the chute. And, I can't say for sure why I addressed you in that post other than I was just talking to a buddy. Sorry you felt "called out" - not at all my intention.

On the C/D - I'll probably take it apart today just to make sure it's clean. I don't want it getting moldy inside and then pull it out next year for another round...

LOL, didn't feel called out at all !!

 

[crushday]

Post crush day 2: Everything is active. The CF took an extra day and a half to present a cap but we have one now. I wonder if it has more to do with SO2 management and the wine's unique chemistry. My original intention was to macerate for 24 hours after dosing with Kmeta (50ppm) but the must temp was too warm so I pitched the yeast several hours after. The Petite Sirah was completely unaffected by that decision. The Cab Franc - well...

I did order some new CH16 but from MoreWine. I LOVE working with Lodi Wine Labs (current CH16 purchased from them) and have no issue at all with them. I appreciate they call me after every order to confirm and ask me questions about what I'm doing and if I have any questions. Stellar... However, the one delivering the packages is WAY sketch. He shows up in a rickety old van, unmarked, no uniform and not timely.

I can get VP41 locally but I have never used it before and I don't want to introduce any more variants. Under normal circumstances, CH16 is solid and works every time.

I did get a little whiff of H2S on PS #1 during punch which is surprising to me considering I did add Fermaid O. Something to watch...

I think I'll pitch Avante tomorrow. That will be two full days (PS) after pitching the Prelude and I would expect the Avante to take a few days to get established. I'll likely pitch Avante on the CF on Wednesday.

All is well.

 

[crushday]

I think that Christoph Hansen 16 had a tan tinge last year. Hmmm maybe it is okay

You have my attention. Can you think of a way to testing to make sure? I don't want to unnecessarily add more and the stuff isn't cheap. I did reorder but can always save that for next time.

 

[cmason1957]

Easy way to test, do a check now for malic acid content, pitch what you have. I'd rehydrate it with some proper chemicals, but that's just me. After 3 or 4 weeks, check the malic acid again. If no change, you got an answer.

 

[crushday]

Easy way to test, do a check now for malic acid content, pitch what you have. I'd rehydrate it with some proper chemicals, but that's just me. After 3 or 4 weeks, check the malic acid again. If no change, you got an answer.

That's a grand idea. I could run a Chrom test now and see if I'm picking up any Lactic. It stands to reason that if any CH16 I've already added is working Lactic would begin to show up. I think I'd want to do that before adding the Avante since it reportedly converts 30% of the Malic to Lactic.

I'll run that test this evening. Should have results tomorrow night.

 

[BarrelMonkey]

Added Ch16 but I believe it to be bad.

Why are you pitching ML bugs during your primary fermentation? I thought one typically waited until yeast fermentation was over before doing ML?

 

[crushday]

Why are you pitching ML bugs during your primary fermentation? I thought one typically waited until yeast fermentation was over before doing ML?

Co-inoculation is a common practice. Most of the wines I make are high ABV (15+) and I want the bacteria to get a solid hold.

Some winemakers co-inoculate after first cap. I typically wait a couple days after the first cap. This is the first time I moved at first cap. As previously stated, I don't use bacteria nutrients and 100% of the time get a completed MLF.

 

[crushday]

Working on a new post primary fermentation wine transfer system today. This part of the winemaking process has been the most frustrating to me. I’ve used varying strategies and self-priming pumps in a couple different sizes. Ultimately they’ve all worked but I’ve been spittin' mad on many occasions. The pumps clogged halfway through the job and I end up having to take the pump apart and remove skins and seeds even though I use a GHP wrapped in a muslin bag and screen filter the press wine. Debris seems to find a way into the pump and under my skin. Grrr…

Here is my new system. Of course I won’t know its effacicy for a couple more weeks but I think it’s going to work well. You can see from the last picture how I had been pumping free run and press wine.

I will continue to use the 5 gallon stainless brew pot. Today I installed a valve high enough that I think I’ll get a quick settling of the gross lees. And, will be using the Blichmann Riptide. Since it’s not self priming I had to think of a way to get the pump to prime without me involved. You can see from the water test, this works perfectly. Time will tell. There is some criticism that the Riptide is hard on the wine but I have a hard time seeing how this has a lasting effect especially compared to other common practices. A degassing whip attached to a drill comes to mind.

I built the carriage and installed the pump and the handle system. I think the 1/2” pipe will work and it’s perfectly balanced.



This is an example of past presses. That little pump is a workhorse but clogs easily and stops pumping. BTW, this is last years Petit Verdot.

 

[Jay A]

Very nice, beats the bucket brigade!