Crushing/pressing grapes

[OldCanalBrewing]

I understand the concept of not crushing grapes too much so as to not release too much tannins. But how much juice would one really get from grapes not really crushed too much? I know I have to press the pulp after a few days and remove the skins and such. (Concord by the way, will get as much as I can so I am not really shooting for a specific amount of juice)
Am I looking at
- picking
- desteming
- crushing do i put my body weight into it (using 2 bucket diy crusher)
- ferment
- remove skins
- and so on......................?
I have done only about 25lbs last year, but I added water and sugar according to a recipe I found. Id rather plan to use just juice/sugar with NO water added.

Thanks!!!!!!!

 

[JohnT]

36 pounds of grapes should yield around 2.5 gallons of finished wine. I would figure around 2.75 gallons at pressing (when pressed fully). If you plan on "free running" it, then I would figure on 2.5 gallons after pressing and 2.25 gallons of finished wine.

The above is simply a rule of thumb. Results will vary from one year to the next and also with the amount of pressing you perform.

 

[Turock]

I'm sure you know that the best way to free up the juice and to break the skins so the pectic enzyme can work is to crush the grapes. You don't want to break the seeds, however, as they are bitter.

We make a lot of concord every year so I'm used to working with this grape. Don't let concord get over-ripe because the flavor gets lost. If you have a refractometer, pick them when they have a brix of 15-16. Having some with lower brix is OK because this grape even turns out well when picked early.

Add some tannin to the primary to stabilize the color. This grape really needs it or else you have plating out of color in your bottles. Concord lacks proper tannin most of the time.

We bag the fruit--helps with cap control and pressing. You can use knee length hosiery and a large funnel as it comes down the shoot of the crusher,if you like.

Get the pectic enzyme in on the first day for fruit breakdown so that your PH reading is more accurate. Set the PH to about 3.4

For secondary aging you can oak if you'd like. Oaked concord is very good. Never add water to concord grapes. We set our ABV to 12.5%

 

[Julie]

Turock,

What oak do you use in the concord? And since you have said about using vanilla in a blackberry have you ever added vanilla to a concord?

 

[winemaker_3352]

I like to figure about 18 #"s per gallon. That way it gives me some extra for topping off with later after rackings..

 

[OldCanalBrewing]

I think what I was trying to ask is..... do I crush "flat as a pancake" at first, or just enough pressure to pop open the grapes? And, after fermentation when removing skins (I will leave in a paint bag for ease of removal) do I crush/press "flat as a pancake" again? I do not live near the vineyard, so we will go up and harvest on a free weekend. I will add tannin for sure however.

Thanks again.

 

[winemaker_3352]

What are you harvesting???

I press my whites pretty good - then i discard the pulp. Not flat as a pancake - but I am getting very little juice coming out when i torque it down...

Reds crush and add juice/skins to primary - press of the skins 5-6 days later.

 

[whackfol]

Just pop the berry and don't get too stressed if some aren't popped. Many wineries conduct a whole berry ferment or add a portion of whole berries. The yeast will get in. I would expect it will lengthen the fermentation time.

As to pressing, I like to separate the free run and light pressed juice from my pressed juice. I typically add it all back, but I do like to see if there is a difference and handle it separately. When to stop has a lot to do with how much you value the resultant juice, the time required and how much pressure you can put on the skins. You don't want o over do it, but it is unlikely a home winemaker can exert enough pressure to get into the seeds. I've seen commercial presses dump out almost dry pulp. With my bladder press, I dont' think I could ever get it that dry.

 

[OldCanalBrewing]

I am doing Concord. And I am doing a DIY crusher found here http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2010/03/emmerpers-bucketpress.html
English is on bottom.
http://wijnmaker.blogspot.com/2010/03/emmerpers-bucketpress.html

 

[winemaker_3352]

Concord - I would just crush (basically bursting the skins) and add the juice and skins in the primary to help get a deeper color.

 

[Turock]

That's right---the idea of "crushing" is to break open the skin so that the pectic enzyme can work to break down the pulp and have it incorporate into the wine. It's NOT crushing it flat as a pancake. The press is where you make the must as flat as a pancake--but without breaking the seeds.

By the way--do a warm ferment on concord so that you get deep color. If you do it in cooler temps, the concord will look more like a rose. We get our vats in a small room with a space heater and keep the temp at 80 degrees for the primary fermentation.

Julie---we've used American oak on concord but we are switching over to french medium toast because it imparts some chocolate notes. The American oak on the concord was good---and we use it to make a blend that we call "Trilogy" which is 2 parts oaked concord, 2 parts elderberry, 1 part blackberry. It's very complex tasting and is the favorite red wine,that we make, among our friends and relatives.

Yes, we've done some bench trials,recently, with vanilla on concord. What a difference it makes on concord!! It smooths it, and the hint of vanilla is a real pleasure. We're still working on trials---trying to decide which is better---the bean or extract. Our bench trial was done with extract. We're going to try 3 beans in a carboy of concord. We've done cinnamon trials in the past on pear and it completely dissipates over a short amount of time, in the bottle. So we're thinking the same may happen to the vanilla. So more work to perfect this is under way. If anyone has worked with vanilla in wine successfully, I'd like to hear about it.

By the way Julie--did you ever make that Niagara/lime??????

 

[whackfol]

FWIW, the photographs on Luc's site show a bucket press not a crusher. If you don't have a crusher, just squeeze the grapes or stomp them. What are your plans for the stems?

 

[OldCanalBrewing]

I did a small handful of med toast oak in fermenter of Concord last year. Came out real nice and smooth. Dont know what type, unmarked bag at LBHS.

 

[OldCanalBrewing]

FWIW, the photographs on Luc's site show a bucket press not a crusher. If you don't have a crusher, just squeeze the grapes or stomp them. What are your plans for the stems?

Stems? No plans. Let me guess........Grappa?

 

[guarddog]

I do not crush my grapes.I make a drop wine.It takes 2 lb. of grapes to make 1 gallon of wine.You pick the grapes off the stems and drop them in the jug then desolve 2 lb of sugar in luke warm water and pour it in jug and desolve 1 pack of yeast and put it in jug and add 8 oz. of grape consentrate per gallon of wine then put your airlock on and let it set 1 year and it will be excellent.I won gold medals for this in wine contest. I do not add anything else.