De-gassing - wine whip?
- Thread starter Siwash
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What ever works. And you ARE getting some exercise!
As far as naturally degassing over time - that goes hand in hand with the patience thing, which will always bug me.
I have the paddle type (top) that is really great for stirring/mixing but is so so for degassing. If you're not careful it can get away from you and I think it might add oxygen.
Just this past weekend I went to my barn, got a poly supply line and length of weed whipper line, and made my own. (Bottom) Free. Works great! Even at high speed there's hardly any vortex but I get a boatload of bubbles.
Some of the serious folk use some kind of vacuum. Maybe I'll try that in the future. Maybe I won't.
As far as naturally degassing over time - that goes hand in hand with the patience thing, which will always bug me.
I have the paddle type (top) that is really great for stirring/mixing but is so so for degassing. If you're not careful it can get away from you and I think it might add oxygen.
Just this past weekend I went to my barn, got a poly supply line and length of weed whipper line, and made my own. (Bottom) Free. Works great! Even at high speed there's hardly any vortex but I get a boatload of bubbles.
Some of the serious folk use some kind of vacuum. Maybe I'll try that in the future. Maybe I won't.
I use one similar to Dave's. Stir for 30 seconds, then change direction 3 to 5 times. I'm not consistent about this and have formed the opinion that the kit instructions to stir for 3 minutes is overkill, to help ensure newbies get a successful result.
Keep in mind that you are not eliminating all CO2, nor do you want to. You're jump starting the process, and outgassing will continue for days or weeks.
Keep in mind that you are not eliminating all CO2, nor do you want to. You're jump starting the process, and outgassing will continue for days or weeks.
*there isn’t anyone in industry who degasses with vacuum, it is not safe for tanks.
* temperature is the biggest driver on degassing, ie summer temperature/ room temperature forces CO2 out of solution. ,,, natural degassing
* mixing creates uniformity, in principal I have done the same thing you are doing with a whip if I bubble nitrogen into the bottom of a tank.
* temperature is the biggest driver on degassing, ie summer temperature/ room temperature forces CO2 out of solution. ,,, natural degassing
* mixing creates uniformity, in principal I have done the same thing you are doing with a whip if I bubble nitrogen into the bottom of a tank.
All that said toys are fun so I use vacuum at home
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I use this. All stainless and will outlive my entire family. Wouldn’t recommend using in glass carboy. I bought it at Smartwinemaking.com.
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This is what I use to stir wine kits after adding water and also then, if I decide I just must try to degas. I normally let time and three or four rackings with a vacuum pump take care of the degassing. 10-20 seconds one direction, reverse and another 10-20 seconds, maybe a total of 5 minutes. works great in glass or plastic carboys.
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joeswine
joeswine
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I use a long plastic spoon, no concerns there .
Drill wipe good tool not for me it’s possible to crack to carboy ?? If you get out of control.
Stirring and gently rocking works just as well . Remember less is more , always be consistent with the process. Read.
Drill wipe good tool not for me it’s possible to crack to carboy ?? If you get out of control.
Stirring and gently rocking works just as well . Remember less is more , always be consistent with the process. Read.
joeswine
joeswine
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For a long time on this forum it was used by some, not me, using a vacuum system destroys the structure.
Can you provide any justification for that assertion?
Yes. Wine will degas slowly while aging. Any manipulation of the wine such as stirring or racking will speed the process. I think degassing is practiced most often to speed clearing and shorten the time to bottling.
if you take two identical carboys of wine and manually degas one but not the other then let them both age for 6 months will they taste different? I don’t know, but I’m quite certain the method of degassing (mechanical or vacuum) is irrelevant.
Perhaps someone here has tried it and can weigh in.
Yes, and that's when you painfully (in my case) learn the true definition of "patience". Skeeter pee and dragon blood will ease the suffering.
AFAIK, kit vendors made manual degassing mainstream in their effort to reduce the time to bottling by speeding clearing. I'm sure the technique was in use long before then (25+ years ago?), but kit vendors pushed it and made it a normal part of their process. After all, it works.
One concern is the use of the term "whipping". When manually degassing, I'm not trying to introduce O2, nor is that a good idea. O2 is necessary during fermentation, but once that's done, O2 is the enemy. I get a small vortex going, which initially emits a lot of CO2.
A good experiment would be to create 3 identical batches, especially if all fermented together. #1 is degassed for 3 minutes, #2 is degassed for 1 minute, and #3 is not degassed at all. Check at the 3, 6, and 9 month mark for differences, and periodically after bottling.
Speaking of drill-mounted stirring rods in general, I recommend a drill-mounted stirring rod for that stated purpose -- stirring. In the past I created a must and inoculated within an hour or two. For the FWK I started last summer and fall, I reconstituted the kit in the evening, and inoculated the next morning. Notably -- in all the kits, the SG was NOT the same the following morning, no matter how well I stirred the night before. The difference was 1 to 4 points, and while most were higher, one was lower. The conclusion is the must was not stirred as well as I believed.
The FWK must was partially frozen and very thick, so we added half the water and stirred well. Then while the remaining water was added, we stirred periodically, and had an extended stir when all water was in. This should have been more than sufficient, but obviously wasn't.
I'm considering a process where assemble a must (doesn't matter what kind of wine) and create a starter. Stir again 12 and 24 hours later, and add the starter after the must settles following the 24 hour stir. I can see extending this to 48 hours, checking SG every 6 hours (except the middle of the night, I'm not that dedicated!) to see how the SG changes over time with multiple stirrings.
The FWK must was partially frozen and very thick, so we added half the water and stirred well. Then while the remaining water was added, we stirred periodically, and had an extended stir when all water was in. This should have been more than sufficient, but obviously wasn't.
I'm considering a process where assemble a must (doesn't matter what kind of wine) and create a starter. Stir again 12 and 24 hours later, and add the starter after the must settles following the 24 hour stir. I can see extending this to 48 hours, checking SG every 6 hours (except the middle of the night, I'm not that dedicated!) to see how the SG changes over time with multiple stirrings.
Amen!
I got into the habit of taking another SG reading just before I add the yeast. At the beginning I had a couple 10 point differences. Yikes! I attribute it, honestly, to half-assed stirring. Though it didn't seem half-assed at the time! I now love my stirring rod.
Side note - I'm no way near being an expert but when I compare my wine making knowledge now to 6 months ago (when I started) the difference is truly amazing! I attribute most of the improvement to WMT. It's like a club with the old farts teaching the new farts. Unfortunately, it's NOT like a club because I can't taste what people have made.
I thought I was stirring well, and I got a 4 point difference, so don't feel too bad. It's all a learning process, and having done this for decades doesn't mean I'm not learning as well. Always new points to consider.
Give it a couple more years -- you won't even recognize yourself!
We get all types. Folks that are testing the water, folks learning to swim before jumping in the shallow end, folks that know how to swim but want others to swim with, and folks that jumped in the deep end and are drowning.
Occasionally we get the non-swimmers who feel the need to tell the instructors how to do it.
Furthering the analogy, there's many strokes, and a lot of individual ways to do those strokes. That keeps things interesting.
To remove any water you first lower the temperature to below freezing and apply a vacuum. The water will then sublime.
I own a home freeze dryer and I process different foods and liquids. Temperature gets well below 0° F and the vacuum pulled is below 500 mtorr. The process can take several days. Steve's All-In-One pump will not get that low. Using the AIO pump you can run it till the cows come home and you will not remove any water unless you up suck in up with the hose.
