Degassing in a carboy....

[sampvt]

This post has been edited so as not to cause embarrassment. I have PM'd the person involved.

 

[grapeman]

Why not send him a Private Message here at the forum?

 

[vacuumpumpman]

Please pm me on the exact bung you need .

What is the 1 way valve being used for ?

 

[sampvt]

Why not send him a Private Message here at the forum?

Ive PM'd him and edited the post, thanks, my bad, I was thinking out loud.

 

[Johnd]

Good article, but there is a small correction to something Tim wrote:



He is correct that it is better to have a full carboy, but for the wrong reason.

The wine provides no meaningful support to the carboy. (At the very bottom of the carboy, where the effect is maximum, the wine reduces the pressure differential on the carboy by about 1.3 inHg, or about 4% of the total if a complete vacuum is pulled.

However, having a full carboy reduces the amount of stored energy that could be turned into flying glass if you should happen to have a flawed carboy that suffers a catastrophic failure. The liquid would also help contain said glass in this event.

Couldn't agree more Paul, and as I've stated in other posts here, a flawed or previously damaged carboy may well break / implode, call the failure what you want, but I don't believe that a sound glass carboy will fail as a result of vacuum degassing wine. Just want to make sure that folks who are looking for ways to degas have real, factual information to make decisions.

 

[DoctorCAD]

I've heard a handful of horror stories about people having wines blow up or blow corks out in bottle because wasn't properly degassed. I've been told to stir it in the carboy until you think your arm is gonna fall off - then keep stirring some more.

How can one know - for sure - that the liquid has been fully and properly degassed?

CO2 left in the wine will Not cause a bottle to blow. An unfinished ferment is what causes bottle bombs. The wine starts over and excessive pressure is what explodes. Degassed wine just tastes wrong.

 

[Tnuscan]

CO2 left in the wine will Not cause a bottle to blow. An unfinished ferment is what causes bottle bombs. The wine starts over and excessive pressure is what explodes. Degassed wine just tastes wrong.

I come in peace....lol

"Degassed wine just tastes wrong",(DoctorCAD) Will you explain more clearly?

Thanks much!!

EDIT: The last sentence of post #26 reads......"Degassed wine just tastes wrong".

 

[vacuumpumpman]

I come in peace....lol

"Degassed wine just tastes wrong", Will you explain more clearly?

Thanks much!!

Picture drinking a can of pop - fresh and then drink it after it has been opened overnight -

The CO2 bubbles actually cover your palate and mask the real taste of the liquid you are consuming.

 

[Tnuscan]

Picture drinking a can of pop - fresh and then drink it after it has been opened overnight -

The CO2 bubbles actually cover your palate and mask the real taste of the liquid you are consuming.

SEE POST # 26 Last Sentence...

I thought the goal Was to degas the wine.

That statement sounds contradictive.

So (DoctorCAD) likes gassy wine???????

 

[vacuumpumpman]

SEE POST # 26 Last Sentence...

I thought the goal Was to degas the wine.

That statement sounds contradictive.

So (DoctorCAD) likes gassy wine???????

No -
he was answering a question about a bottle blowing off a cork to someone else's post.

 

[DoctorCAD]

SEE POST # 26 Last Sentence...

I thought the goal Was to degas the wine.

That statement sounds contradictive.

So (DoctorCAD) likes gassy wine???????

You are correct, I mis-typed.

Should have read "Gassy wine just tastes wrong"

 

[Tnuscan]

You are correct, I mis-typed.

Should have read "Gassy wine just tastes wrong"[/QUOT

Thought it was meant to be, Gassy or, Over Gassed ,but I'm usually(standing backward) out in left field anyway.

 

[michael-s]

I was using my vacuum pump to degas and the pressure got too high! Has this ever happened to anyone degassing their glass
carboys using a vacuum pump. Not sure what to do.

 

[AZMDTed]

Nice figure. As it ages it will expand

 

[NorCal]

I was using my vacuum pump to degas and the pressure got too high! Has this ever happened to anyone degassing their glass
carboys using a vacuum pump. Not sure what to do.

Now that is funny

 

[NelsonC]

Degassing help!

I'm starting my second kit. This is going to be a Winexpert Selection California Merlot. Did a Winexpert World Vineyard Chilean Merlot the first time and while after breathing awhile it tastes quite good, there is initially a noticeable effervescence to it. I'm assuming this is because I did not degas properly/enough. I used a drill with mixer attached and it would continually foam up to the point of almost coming out of the carboy so I decided I must be doing something wrong. Is this because I'm doing it too fast? How long and how fast is right? I then actually tried the vacuvin method but was unsure how many times you have to do it. Is it until it starts clicking like on a bottle of wine?

Any tips on degassing without having to spend a lot on specialty tools would be appreciated.

Also, once I've degassed and am in the clarification process (step 4 with winexpert kits), is it still necessary to keep the wine at 72-75 degrees?

It has happened to me a couple of times. This happens because the fermentation is not over. You do need to wait until very little or no bubbling is going to the surface of the must, then you need to transfer the wine to a second carboy, or if you don't have a second one, use the primary fermentation vessel (which should have enough space, i.e. not over filled). There is no real amount of time to say what you should wait, because fermentation depends on the room temperature (which can vary from location to location).
You do not need to degass aggressively, i.e. using a power drill. Power drill is convenient if you are in a hurry. Degassing will ensure that clarification (a later stage in the process) will succeed or at least will be better. Degassing by using a long "spoon" is OK so long you take your time (about 10 min) and turn clockwise and anti-clockwise fast enough to see bubbles come to the top of the wine. Foam may form but should subside slowly. If 10 min is too long, then do 5 min, then take a break and do it again 5 min at a time.

 

[VicF]

I understand that the allinone people have a great deal of influence on this site and good on them but I am in the uk and cant get one so here are my thoughts.
Degassing is a bain in my life and I have been through every known way known to man. I admit I am consumed with it, but I have no patience, I admit that.
Ive had the cheap battery drill and the old coat hanger....crap.
Expensive and faster Dewalt drill and plastic whip....better but still crap.
Electric 240v drill with metal whizzer...much better but cant seems to find the perfect speed. Im either too slow and it does nothing, or too fast and I end up introducing air into the mix.
I then tried the vacuvin vacuum pressure method....not strong enough.
I then tried the food saver way and still no good but better.
I then borrowed a refrigeration vacuum pump and ended up imploding one of my best glass carboys but I had it in a 30l bucket so 20l of wine was re filtered and rescued, lol
I then drove to Manchester to meet a friend that has an American allinone wine system and his wine is smooth and out of this world.

The secret seems to be the amount of vacuum pressure applied to the must which has to be between 22 to 25 inches of mercury or inhg to those in the know, lol.

Hand helds give 12 to 18inhg, food savers go between 14 to 18inhg, Refrigeration pumps go up to 28.5inhg, the holy grail figure, I am told, is 23inhg.

This mate just mixes, ferments, racks and degasses using the vacuum transfer method, then he applies a static degassing over night with a sustained pressure of 23inhg, then he filters and bottles. He maintains there is no real need to bulk age as the degassing has been done and the aging proves in the bottle. He then starts to drink it after 3 to 4 moths and maintains that with a proper degass, 3 to 4 months in the bottle is perfect.

I know all the buffs out there that don't degass and bulk age will scoff at this, but we are talking about the difference between drinking in a year or drinking in 3 months. The common denominator here seems to be the degassing process as it aids the clearing and helps the aging process indirectly by allowing us to remove the nasties from the mix that occurs naturally over 12 months of bulk long term aging

Ive researched the specs on the allinone system and I have found a pump similar to what they use here in the uk and I bought one second hand for £19 on e bay and new they are only £50.

It gets here tomorrow so I will report back how it works as I have a mix waiting for a degass.

Now he sits back waiting for all the lectures, lol.

PS every new idea progresses the art and we all started somewhere so without feedback, we would all still be brewing in clay pots..

So, how did it turn out. Been waiting 2 yrs to know!

 

[Carboy-Boy]

Just to add...…..I've been using a 'retired' AC vac pump to degass my wine for many years now. At first I was paranoid that the pump would collapse my carboy, but it did not. I get somewhere around 20 in of vacuum, apparently not enough to collapse a carboy full of wine. I added the separator, as noted before very gassy wine can & will be sucked into the pump...……..not good! I believe I paid $35cdn for the used pump. Very effective process.

 

[robert81650]

Very classy clear wine...........good job...........

 

[jgmann67]

I understand that the allinone people have a great deal of influence on this site and good on them but I am in the uk and cant get one so here are my thoughts.
Degassing is a bain in my life and I have been through every known way known to man. I admit I am consumed with it, but I have no patience, I admit that.
Ive had the cheap battery drill and the old coat hanger....crap.
Expensive and faster Dewalt drill and plastic whip....better but still crap.
Electric 240v drill with metal whizzer...much better but cant seems to find the perfect speed. Im either too slow and it does nothing, or too fast and I end up introducing air into the mix.
I then tried the vacuvin vacuum pressure method....not strong enough.
I then tried the food saver way and still no good but better.
I then borrowed a refrigeration vacuum pump and ended up imploding one of my best glass carboys but I had it in a 30l bucket so 20l of wine was re filtered and rescued, lol
I then drove to Manchester to meet a friend that has an American allinone wine system and his wine is smooth and out of this world.

The secret seems to be the amount of vacuum pressure applied to the must which has to be between 22 to 25 inches of mercury or inhg to those in the know, lol.

Hand helds give 12 to 18inhg, food savers go between 14 to 18inhg, Refrigeration pumps go up to 28.5inhg, the holy grail figure, I am told, is 23inhg.

This mate just mixes, ferments, racks and degasses using the vacuum transfer method, then he applies a static degassing over night with a sustained pressure of 23inhg, then he filters and bottles. He maintains there is no real need to bulk age as the degassing has been done and the aging proves in the bottle. He then starts to drink it after 3 to 4 moths and maintains that with a proper degass, 3 to 4 months in the bottle is perfect.

I know all the buffs out there that don't degass and bulk age will scoff at this, but we are talking about the difference between drinking in a year or drinking in 3 months. The common denominator here seems to be the degassing process as it aids the clearing and helps the aging process indirectly by allowing us to remove the nasties from the mix that occurs naturally over 12 months of bulk long term aging

Ive researched the specs on the allinone system and I have found a pump similar to what they use here in the uk and I bought one second hand for £19 on e bay and new they are only £50.

It gets here tomorrow so I will report back how it works as I have a mix waiting for a degass.

Now he sits back waiting for all the lectures, lol.

PS every new idea progresses the art and we all started somewhere so without feedback, we would all still be brewing in clay pots..

There is one cheap alternative that you missed. It is also crap when compared to an AIO, but it is substantially better than a vacc-u-vin, a food saver and beating the co2 out of your wine with a whip or drill.

A $20 brake bleeder kit from Harbor Freight:



Upside, you can get to that magical 22-25 inches of vacuum. Downside, it takes a bit of muscle and patience.

Simple instructions: Get the carboy to the desired vaccuum. Agitate the wine. Wait and watch as the co2 releases. Repeat when the vacuum drops down below the desired level.