Degassing without vacuum

[bds3]

First of all, let this be my obligatory "this is my first post but I've been stalking this forum forever and it's awesome." Which is true of course.

I've been brewing beer for some time with good success. I've gotten to the point where my not-so-good beers are better than most you can buy in the store, and my good beers are nearly without [commercial] equal. I have virtually everything I need to start making wine from a kit (except a 7.9gal bucket and a corker), which I'd like to do, but my question is this:

Is degassing with a drill+attachment adequate to produce good wine? I keep reading that vacuum degassing is the single biggest improvement to one's wine; I can't afford that awesome-looking all-in-one that's all over this site, and I'm not sure I'm handy enough to make my own vacuum pump from auto parts equipment.

I don't want to waste $150 or more on a kit and end up with a fizzy wine, so any input is appreciated. Thanks.

 

[TonyP]

Keep in mind that wine was made for thousands of years, long before degassing was used. The real secret to degassing is getting the wine warm enough, at least 68 - preferably 72F. Under those conditions, wine will degas naturally over time. Degassing with a drill then is easy, again if it's warm enough.. One thing you want to avoid is getting air into the wine, so be careful not to get it going into a vortex.

BTW, degassing's benefit is more than fizz. If wine is not degassed properly it may not clear.

 

[tonyt]

+1 What Tony P said. Dont make a deep vortex that might let too much oxygen in. Use a back and forth motion if your drill reverses. Go for it.

 

[bds3]

Thanks Tony x2. The degassing is my biggest concern at this point. I've got the go-ahead from the wife (probably because she drinks wine and not the copious amount of beer we have sitting around). I suppose I should go for it.

 

[GeoS]

They make a whip that attaches to the drill and prevents a vortex and is cheaper than the "mixers" with the blades. It works great for me.

 

[bds3]

They make a whip that attaches to the drill and prevents a vortex and is cheaper than the "mixers" with the blades. It works great for me.

Do you have a link or a picture of what you're talking about? Is it this?
http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_29&product_id=260

 

[cpfan]

As much as I like Fermtech products (auto-siphon, thief), I do not like that Whip. And I have read other comments from people who have had problems with it.

I use a Fizz-X in a drill to stir wine, mix additives, etc. But I find that a round-and-round motion (drill or stirring spoon) is not an effective degassing motion. For me, side-to-side works better. So yes, I use the drill as part of my mixing/degassing routine, but I primarily use the paddle end of a stirring spoon in a back-and-foth motion.

Steve

 

[roblloyd]

I was using the back and forth with the spoon and it took forever. I think for about $50 you can get a vacuum pump and with some ingenuity you can degas easily. Harbor freight makes some. I have not tried them. I have one for woodworking. It's so easy to degass and rack and bottle with a vacuum.
Is it necessary? No. Does it make it more fun and easier? Yes. I probably make more wine because of it. Filtering is also a huge bonus for that extra clarity.
You can also check eBay for used medical pumps. Sometimes there is a good deal on them.
In the end you will probably spend what it costs to buy the all in one that's on here but you can do it in stages as budget permits.
Or let your wife degass with the spoon once... She'll pull out the credit card for you

 

[GeoS]

Do you have a link or a picture of what you're talking about? Is it this?
http://brewandwinesupply.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=25_29&product_id=260

Yes, that is the whip I use. I haven't been using it for long, only a couple of times so far, but I have not had any issues with it. I thought it worked well.
I hold the bung above the opening of the carboy at first then I seal the bung in. Keep water in the bung at all times, it will lubricate the shaft and you will see the gas escaping. Slightly tilt the whip for best results and do not spin it for more than 20 to 30 seconds at a time. I also spin it in both directions.

 

[Wild Duk]

Harbour freight you can get a brake bleeder for about $25 with coupon... It works great.... Just pump until your Carboy will hold a vacuum of about 15" hg without gas coming out....
It does tire out your hand though

 

[BernardSmith]

I have never made wine from kits although I understand that the instructions ask you to degas. But with time all wines degas naturally. The question then is whether you have the patience to wait for the wine to degas by itself or you intend to have the wine in bottles in weeks. That said, you can probably find an inexpensive electrical vacuum pump on Ebay for about $30 or $40 dollars.. which would be powerful enough to create and hold a vacuum of about 25 inches without tiring your hand...

 

[GeoS]

I have never made wine from kits although I understand that the instructions ask you to degas. But with time all wines degas naturally. The question then is whether you have the patience to wait for the wine to degas by itself or you intend to have the wine in bottles in weeks. That said, you can probably find an inexpensive electrical vacuum pump on Ebay for about $30 or $40 dollars.. which would be powerful enough to create and hold a vacuum of about 25 inches without tiring your hand...

Are you using inches hg? If so that's about 12 PSI. Might be able to get that from a Colman air mattress pump in reverse. I'll have to look into that.

 

[vacuumpumpman]

GeoS
Yes I believe once you use a vacuum pump you will never look back again !
If you get the right size vacuum pump and attachements you will be able to degass, transfer, bottle and filter also.

 

[Wild Duk]

Yes... It doesn't take a whole lot of pressure to degas it...

 

[Abrnth3]

I have never degassed my wine but have a vacuum pump and may try that with next one. question is what do you use to empty the carboy with out taking anymore Lee's then absolutly neccessary.

 

[GeoS]

Problem I found with non-vacuum degassing is that I got air into wine when stirring/whipping and I can't tell when the degassing is done because there's always bubbles forming. Some of them are Co2 but some are air bubbles I guess.

After whipping for a few min with the bung being held to allow air to escape from around it I sealed the bung and filled it with water then hit the drill for 20 sec and watched to see when only a bubble or two escaped between the bung and the whip shaft.

 

[Elmer]

I took someone's advice and cut a plastic hanger, attached to a drill and used that as a whip.

Now my question is if I put the drill on high and create a vortex, does that add O2 to the wine, that then comes back as bubbles.

I whipped my newly made wine and had a ton of bubbles. I have done this 2 days each for 20 minutes.
I did not get as many bubbles when I whipped slowly as opposed to fast.

I then went and wipped my wine that has been aging for 3 years and got bubbles when I increased the drill speed.

So what is the right speed ?
&
How often and long do you drill?

 

[GeoS]

Whipping will put air into the wine and a vortex will make it worse. They way I understand it is the gas in the wine from fermentation is not air but carbon dioxide, same as the bubbles in soda. When degassing you are getting the carbon dioxide out of the wine. A fast whipping motion will do this, same as whipping a soda would cause it to fizz.

This is why I seal the bung, use a universal bung, and fill it with water. As the carbon dioxide escapes from the wine it builds pressure in the carboy, like shaking a soda can, and this pressure will escape between the bung and the shaft of the whip. You will see the bubbles in the water in the bung. When all of the carbon dioxide has Ben whipped out of the wine you will still see bubbles, but they are from air. You can whip this all day and you will not build up any pressure in the carboy, thus almost no bubbles in the bung.

Another way to tell is draw some wine and put it in a small jar with a lid. Seal the lid and shake the jar. When you open the jar you should the pressure escape. If there is no pressure build up then all of the gas is out of the wine.

 

[Tess]

I just broke down and got one. Cant afford the all in one right now but I got a vacumn pump and racking kit to rack under vacumn. Actually saw the add for it on here and my arm was tired so I went for it!!! lol

 

[Tess]

I managed to hurry and cancel that order. I didnt know you have to have an air compressor! I will be saving for the all in one I guess