Dry wine making kits

[Sailor323]

I think it is partly a matter of taste. When I think of dry I mean mouth sucking dry. It is also likely that by following the instructions I also stopped the fermentaion. This time round I am not going to stop the fermentation at all and see how dry it will ferment out to.

Assuming that you actually let the kit ferment out to SG .996 or less, you may identify "kit taste" as sweetness. I'm not really sure what "kit taste is" but I find that most kits lack tannin which produces that mouth puckering, dry sensation. You might consider adding grape tannin as a tweak to your red wine kits. Regardless, be sure to allow the fermentation to proceed to less than .996. The hydrometer is an essential winemaking tool.

 

[windseafire]

Assuming that you actually let the kit ferment out to SG .996 or less, you may identify "kit taste" as sweetness. I'm not really sure what "kit taste is" but I find that most kits lack tannin which produces that mouth puckering, dry sensation. You might consider adding grape tannin as a tweak to your red wine kits. Regardless, be sure to allow the fermentation to proceed to less than .996. The hydrometer is an essential winemaking tool.

Never heard of "kit taste" before. I wonder if they add anything to the kit to keep the sweet taste. I will try adding tannin but would like to experiment with smaller batches. Can you add tannin after the ferment so I could experiment in 1 gallon demijohns?

 

[winemaker81]

I was, but I think I am going to leave out all those additions and just let the next batch ferment out.

Which additions?

 

[windseafire]

Which additions?

The ones for fininng the wine and stopping fermentation.

 

[ChuckD]

Never heard of "kit taste" before. I wonder if they add anything to the kit to keep the sweet taste. I will try adding tannin but would like to experiment with smaller batches. Can you add tannin after the ferment so I could experiment in 1 gallon demijohns?

Yes. Many people age on oak. In fact I believe oak added pre-ferment is considered sacrificial.

 

[winemaker81]

The ones for fininng the wine and stopping fermentation.

If bottling on kit schedule, K&C are necessary to clear the wine. However, if you bulk age long enough, fining agents are not necessary, although the potential for getting a bit of fine sediment in the bottle is increased.

The finishing pack (sorbate + K-meta) is unnecessary if making dry wine. You do want to add K-meta at bottling time, to protect the wine.

Note: sorbate does not stop fermentation. Sorbate + K-meta prevent a renewed fermentation.

 

[windseafire]

Yes. Many people age on oak. In fact I believe oak added pre-ferment is considered sacrificial.

Thanks!

 

[windseafire]

If bottling on kit schedule, K&C are necessary to clear the wine. However, if you bulk age long enough, fining agents are not necessary, although the potential for getting a bit of fine sediment in the bottle is increased.

The finishing pack (sorbate + K-meta) is unnecessary if making dry wine. You do want to add K-meta at bottling time, to protect the wine.

Note: sorbate does not stop fermentation. Sorbate + K-meta prevent a renewed fermentation.

Do you actually have to add k-meta? Being from europe I am used to having to decant wine because of the sediment in the bottom of the bottle which I presume is from continued fermentation in the bottle.

 

[wineview]

It’s advisable to add KMeta which protects against spoilage. It does not prevent sediment from forming.

 

[winemaker81]

Do you actually have to add k-meta? Being from europe I am used to having to decant wine because of the sediment in the bottom of the bottle which I presume is from continued fermentation in the bottle.

If you have fermentation in the bottle, the produced CO2 would blow the cork. Sediment is because the wine was not fully clear, or tannic red that dropped tannin.

Expanding on @wineview's comment, k-meta is an antioxidant and preservative. Free SO2 binds with contaminants, including O2, rendering them harmless. Without k-meta, shelf life is shorter.

 

[windseafire]

If you have fermentation in the bottle, the produced CO2 would blow the cork. Sediment is because the wine was not fully clear, or tannic red that dropped tannin.

Expanding on @wineview's comment, k-meta is an antioxidant and preservative. Free SO2 binds with contaminants, including O2, rendering them harmless. Without k-meta, shelf life is shorter.

I believe that with the french wines that don't sulphate the amount of fermentation is minute when they bottle and the CO2 can escape through the corks. That may also explain the lack of oxidation. However I can understand the value of playing safe by using the k-meta.

 

[Raptor99]

Being from europe I am used to having to decant wine because of the sediment in the bottom of the bottle which I presume is from continued fermentation in the bottle.

The sediment could have settled out from the wine, without any fermentation in the bottle.

Is it common in Europe to have a bit of sediment in the bottom of wine bottles? Here in the US we seem obsessed with removing every last trace of sediment. I don't think that a tiny bit of sediment affects the flavor, but it is perceived as a flaw.

 

[Raptor99]

I did a little poking around, and I found this: Why Is There Sediment in Wine and Is It Harmful? | WineLoverMagazine
Notable quote:

Usually, sediment in wine is neither a flaw nor a sign of spoilage. In many cases, it is quite the opposite. Artisan winemakers handcraft their wines with much care, and they often decide to waive filtering the sediments to add more aromas and color to the wine.

Another site includes this statement: What’s The Gunk in My Wine?

After many months or years in bottle, some of that stuff will form a fine silt or sediment of lees at the bottom. This
happens in almost every good, ageworthy and tannic red wine, whether Bordeaux, Barolo, Rioja or California Cabernet Sauvignon.

We are not talking about an inch of gunk at the bottom of the bottle. But a fine layer of sediment is not necessarily a flaw. According to the first article, I am an "Artisan winemaker" who avoids filtering.

 

[ChuckD]

I am an "Artisan winemaker" who avoids filtering.

Me too!

 

[windseafire]

The sediment could have settled out from the wine, without any fermentation in the bottle.

Is it common in Europe to have a bit of sediment in the bottom of wine bottles? Here in the US we seem obsessed with removing every last trace of sediment. I don't think that a tiny bit of sediment affects the flavor, but it is perceived as a flaw.

Things have changed a bit in recent years with the "buy now drink now" philosopy.
The norm however for a good french wine is that you will always need to decant it before drinking to leave the sediment behind. You also need to decant it at least 6 hours before you drink it and preferably the day before to let it breathe.

I went back to France last year with my brother/sister in law from the US and neither of them could believe the complexity and intensity of the wines there. I miss that and would love to replicate it.

 

[windseafire]

I did a little poking around, and I found this: Why Is There Sediment in Wine and Is It Harmful? | WineLoverMagazine
Notable quote:


Another site includes this statement: What’s The Gunk in My Wine?


We are not talking about an inch of gunk at the bottom of the bottle. But a fine layer of sediment is not necessarily a flaw. According to the first article, I am an "Artisan winemaker" who avoids filtering.

In my experience filtered wines lose a lot of their complexity and intensity.

 

[David Violante]

When you say “extended maceration”, how many weeks are you talking about. The most I’ve done was three weeks because I get a little skiddish when I can’t see what’s happening under the cover. Are my worries not warranted?

By “under the cover” are you meaning literally as in an enclosed SS tank? My procedure at the moment is to ferment in a large container where the must can roil around as it pleases, then move it to a clear plastic fermonster with an airlock when it gets down to 1.010 or so. I can still see what’s going on and as @ratflinger do an EM under airlock for up to 6 weeks. I will swirl it around occasionally to ensure the berries on top get some time in the pool, and to shake off the CO2 inevitably pushing them up especially early on.

I’m getting confident enough to not need to see this all going on now, but have the equipment and so continue to use it. I don’t ferment in it, as there’s just not enough room for all that’s going on in the middle of fermentation. Unless it’s a small batch, in which case everything can happen in there and it’s great to watch all the activity. If there’s a lot of headspace, putting it under airlock early enough will help to continuously dilute the air in the container with CO2 and you won’t have a problem. Don’t open it until you’re ready to rack. Once it’s open, it’s open.

I find that EM has a lot of benefits, and there’s a lot of good discussion about the similarity of doing a cold soak. I don’t have the equipment for a cold soak so I haven’t tried.

And @windseafire welcome to WMT!

Edited so it didn’t look like I was welcoming @wineview… although I’m glad you’re here too!

 

[windseafire]

Thanks for the welcome. You have really got me thinking about extended maceration. I like how you do it.

 

[Brant]

Things have changed a bit in recent years with the "buy now drink now" philosopy.
The norm however for a good french wine is that you will always need to decant it before drinking to leave the sediment behind. You also need to decant it at least 6 hours before you drink it and preferably the day before to let it breathe.

I went back to France last year with my brother/sister in law from the US and neither of them could believe the complexity and intensity of the wines there. I miss that and would love to replicate it.

You're saying they might decant a wine 24 hrs in advance? Do they leave in the decanter exposed to air for the entire duration before drinking?

 

[windseafire]

Yes, and not just for 24hrs. My favorite wine seller in France would always have a few bottles open for his customers to try and sometimes they had been opened for 2-3 days. Red wines only. I remember tasting a newly opened bottle compared to one that had been "breathed". The newly opened one tasted quite rough. The breathed one was smoothe and with so many aftertastes.