RJ Spagnols En Primeur Winery Series - Italian Amarone Style

[silverbullet07]

The kit instructions are the opposite of what you are doing -- the instructions state to take the skins out early. You're deviating from the instructions, so you need to consider what each ingredient does, and why (outside of kit making) it's added and when.

Pectic enzyme is used, in part, to break down cell structure and improve extraction, which is among the reasons why it's added before the yeast. You're going to get more out of the skin packs if you add the pectinase before EM. This is the reason I often harp on "why" -- when you understand "why", you can make informed decisions and move into advanced territory.

Keep in mind that kit instructions are targeted at beginners who have no experienced help, to ensure they have a successful conclusion on the first try. You're now in deeper waters, learning strokes beyond doggy paddle.

I’ll go ahead and add it on my next stirring so it can get started. Thanks.

 

[silverbullet07]

Must hit 1.020 this evening. The Pectinase was not much for 6 gal only 1.5 g. I added it and placed the lid and air lock on after stirring it good.

Now I will just agitate it once a day for a few weeks.

I won’t need the primary bucket until my two petite Sarah kits comes in from Label peelers. Not sure when those ship maybe in August.

 

[winemaker81]

Now I will just agitate it once a day for a few weeks.

None of the information I've read regarding EM indicates it needs agitation. The process is seal the container and ignore it for X weeks.

 

[silverbullet07]

I was just worried the raisins and grape skins would dry floating on top.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

None of the information I've read regarding EM indicates it needs agitation. The process is seal the container and ignore it for X weeks.

I never agitate it after sealing it up, I want that CO2 blanket to be left undisturbed.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

I was just worried the raisins and grape skins would dry floating on top.

If they are still floating, the CO2 will protect them from any concerns, that's my take anyway

 

[silverbullet07]

If they are still floating, the CO2 will protect them from any concerns, that's my take anyway

Great thanks. I will let it sit undisturbed.

 

[Huba Huba]

My normal process for kits was to fill a 19 liter carboy and then whatever other containers were required. While it works, it's more effort and it's wasteful of wine as you lose some wine from each container every time you rack. Limiting the number of containers is least wasteful.

The 6.5 gallon carboy is possibility, although you may want top topup with a compatible wine. I'd not use fruit as it will change the aroma and taste, and while the final product may be pleasing, it may deviate significantly from the kit's intended aroma and taste. My guess is you don't want that. OTOH, a liter of red grape concentrate will increase the kit size from 23 to 27 liters, and that will fill the 6.5 gallon carboy with some to spare.

The 19 liter carboy + 4 liter jug is a good option, as is two 3 gallon carboys. These options are about the same, although the neck of many 1 US gallon/4 liter jugs may be too narrow to accept some winemaking tools, such as a Fermtech wine thief. In that respect two 3 gallon carboys are a better choice.

In the last year I purchased a 23 liter carboy, and having the entire kit in a single container is the easiest to manage. I expect I'll be buying 2 more over the next year. You said another purchase is in the works at this time, so this is food for thought.

Topup? With 23 liter kits, I plan for 2 bottles of topup, and typically need about 1.5 bottles. I choose a compatible wine and am not concerned about preserving the kit's exact aroma and flavor. If I have a Merlot, I add a Merlot I like, or conversely may go with a Cabernet Sauvignon or Malbec to add complexity.

If you go with the 6.5 gallon carboy, you'll need another half gallon (2.5 bottles) of topup wine. From my POV I'll be drinking it all, kit + topup wine. The only difference in using ~5 bottles of wine for topup is that I'm not drinking them separately.

thank you Winemaker81

 

[joeswine]

Yes it is indeed , many stops along the way and rarely ever produced exactly the same way.

 

[silverbullet07]

As I am planning ahead for aging the Amarone, I have read it may help to oak this during the aging process. I usually use Hungarian med toasted oak cubes on my blackberry. Would this be a good option of oak to use in the Amarone? The kit did have Hungarian med toasted oak chips that was used for the primary.

 

[winemaker81]

As I am planning ahead for aging the Amarone, I have read it may help to oak this during the aging process. I usually use Hungarian med toasted oak cubes on my blackberry. Would this be a good option of oak to use in the Amarone?

The short answer is yes.

The long answer is that any medium toast oak cubes will produce a good result. I've used American, French, and Hungarian in different wines, and in general prefer the flavor of Hungarian. You may find my Oak Stix Experiment to be useful in considering different types of oak.

https://wine.bkfazekas.com/oak-stix-experiment/
The bigger question is "how much?" I was using 2 oz per 5/6 gallons of wine, but have found that to be a bit much, especially in a lighter bodied wine. I want oak as a seasoning, not a flavoring, so I go lighter than some folks. At this time I'm using 1-1/2 oz cubes in 5/6 gallons, and I add after the wine is clear, then leave in until bottling. The cubes are pretty much expended by ~3 months, but it doesn't hurt to leave them in as long as 12 months. Once you've hit 3 months of aging, there's no point in racking just to remove the cubes.

Gently stir the wine monthly, as there are no convection currents and the wine around the cubes will be strongest flavored. This will give you a true tasting when you perform quality control.

 

[silverbullet07]

Thank you! My last 5 gal batch blackberry I added 3 oz Hungarian med toast for 3 months but my blackberry is a bold heavy wine and high in acid. I would think this may be the same but no reason that I can start lower and can add more as needed. This did have some added to primary too that may need to be accounted for.

 

[cmason1957]

When I make this kit, I almost always add 1 WineStix Med+ toast French Oak for at least 3 months. I like the notes it brings to most wines. I used to only use American Oak, but have found it ends up being a woody taste to the final wine. I have never used Hungarian Oak, for probably a dumb reason. One of the members of the wine club I belong to brought in his wine that had sat in a new Hungarian Oak barrel for far to long (think years and probably a 20-30 gallon barrel). It was horrid, terrible, not so good and turned my wife and myself against Hungarian Oak.

 

[winemaker81]

I have never used Hungarian Oak, for probably a dumb reason.

Naw. When you have a bad experience, it's easy for it to stick in your head, especially smell and taste related.

I had a very bad experience with blended American whiskey when I was 17 -- I got religion* for something like 4 hours. Since then I like bourbon, Irish whiskey, Scotch, Japanese whiskey, etc. But the smell of blended American whiskey makes me nauseous to this day.

You may want to reconsider the Hungarian oak. You can destroy those ugly memories!




* by religion I mean I spent hours on my knees, deep in prayer to the porcelain god.

 

[sour_grapes]

* by religion I mean I spent hours on my knees, deep in prayer to the porcelain god.

I probably wouldn't be drinking much peppermint schnapps as an adult anyway.... but let's just say that it is off the table due to poor decision-making by my younger self!

 

[silverbullet07]

* by religion I mean I spent hours on my knees, deep in prayer to the porcelain god.

I hear ya. My bad decision was with Jack Daniel’s.. will not go near it to this day and I have a had time with any other Bourbon.

 

[cmason1957]

I probably wouldn't be drinking much peppermint schnapps as an adult anyway.... but let's just say that it is off the table due to poor decision-making by my younger self!

Ah peppermint Schnapps. I took some too my ex-mother-in-law many years ago and she got a bit tipsy on it. Didn't happen often for her. But my ex and I had a great laugh over it that night. And blend Scotch is right off the table for me. Now unblended and heavy oak, bring it on. Islay (Talisker, Laguvullin, Ardmore).

 

[wpt-me]

Southern comfort 100 proof ??

Bill

 

[cmason1957]

Southern comfort 100 proof ??

Bill

Oh no. I don't think my parents car has recovered from my girlfriend back in college, hurling that stuff all over everything.

(That was nearly 50 years ago)

 

[Brant]

I never agitate it after sealing it up, I want that CO2 blanket to be left undisturbed.

to piggy back on this... on the two times I did EM, the water in the S-shaped airlock was pushed to the high side by the off-gassing C02 and remained there rock solid for the entirety of the EM. room temperature stayed consistent within +/- 2F so vessel expansion/contraction would have been very minimal. i took this all as a good sign that the bucket stayed properly sealed with no leaks.

my gut feeling is that external air being introduced during EM is probably the only thing that is going to ruin the wine. if the C02 blanket is undisturbed, the wine should stay protected. the skins may stay floating during the process but i knew this was a possibility going it. i considered agitation but figured that it could inadvertently introduce outside air which, in my mind, was the bigger issue to contend with and because of this, i made it my mission to not disturb the fermenter in any way lest i introduce 02.

the next time i run an EM, i may plan to sink the skins using those glass fermentation weights. on the two EM's i ran, the muslin bags were right at the surface of the wine but not above it so i believe the skins stayed wet throughout.

EM fits my work/life schedule better than the standard ferment schedule. being able to pick any day within a 6-8 week wide window is awesome. it puts the most labor intensive part of the process into my timeline and not the wines.