enological tannins vs. oak chips

[Snafflebit]

Hi all,

This year I have some small batches and I might try differing ingredients between the batches. I have used Scott'Tan FT Rouge on most of my reds as an enological tannin. This year I want to try oak chips in the primary. One issue with the FT Rouge is that MoreWine says it might not play well with enzymes, cause color precipitation. I have never seen this happen, but it has me at least curious to look at oak chips.

What is the dosage of oak chips in red must? I have med toast French oak.

 

[winemaker81]

The shredded toasted oak I purchased from Northern Brewer says 1 to 1-1/2 cups for 6 gallons white, or 2 to 3 cup for 6 gallons red.

My math says that translates to 3/4 to 1 cup per 36 lb lug.

A few years back I experimented with fermentation oak types -- right after pressing the wine was distinctly different when using American and French oak. However, after 6 months of bulk aging the wines were indistinguishable. I now use American oak as it's cheaper.

I use powdered tannin a fruit and white wines, but haven't yet used any of the premium products, so I can't comment on them.

 

[anthocyanin]

I believe the issue with FT Rouge and enzymes is just that the enzymes should be given 12-24 hours to work before any fermentation tannins are added because the tannins can bind and precipitate the enzymes before they've done all their work

 

[Hazelemere]

Hi all,

This year I have some small batches and I might try differing ingredients between the batches. I have used Scott'Tan FT Rouge on most of my reds as an enological tannin. This year I want to try oak chips in the primary. One issue with the FT Rouge is that MoreWine says it might not play well with enzymes, cause color precipitation. I have never seen this happen, but it has me at least curious to look at oak chips.

What is the dosage of oak chips in red must? I have med toast French oak.

30 oak cubes per 30 bottle carboy. You can go as high as 45 if you really like oak. Add it at the beginning of MLF and leave it in 120 days. (90 is absolute minimum). French oak is milder than American oak because it is denser and the trees grow more slowly. 45 medium toast French oak cubes should be fine.

 

[hptasins]

I haven't tried oak chips during fermentation, but I believe you want to be somewhat restrained to not overoak the wine (especially if you're planning on adding oak during aging as well.) Alison Crowe at Winemaker Mag says she does "50/50 mixture of toasted and untoasted fine-grain oak chips to the fermentation at the rate of about 1–1.5 g/L." If you're only using toasted, probably stay on the low side of that or even less.

 

[winemaker81]

I haven't tried oak chips during fermentation, but I believe you want to be somewhat restrained to not overoak the wine (especially if you're planning on adding oak during aging as well.) Alison Crowe at Winemaker Mag says she does "50/50 mixture of toasted and untoasted fine-grain oak chips to the fermentation at the rate of about 1–1.5 g/L." If you're only using toasted, probably stay on the low side of that or even less.

There is one significant difference between fermentation oak and aging oak -- time.

Fermentation oak is present for typically 4 to 8 days, unless doing some type of EM. Aging oak is present for months.

From my experiments I gained essentially no oak character from fermentation oak. I mentioned upstream that there was minor differences between American and French oak shortly after fermentation completed, but that difference disappeared within a month or so (IIRC).