Exotic barrel vrs Vadai barrel

[mainshipfred]

I took one of the sentences that seemed very "telling" to me (i.e., kinda specific), and threw it into the googler. The first hit matched the sentence exactly.

You make it sound too easy but I'm still super impressed

 

[balatonwine]

Seems that they talk a lot about different oaks, but never say which one(s) they use.....

Of course they state which ones they use. They use Quercus petraea and Quercus robur, which I already stated. Those are the only two oaks used in cooperage in Europe from reputable coopers.

http://www.iscbarrels.com/2017/03/30/oak-species-for-cooperage/

If you want to know which specific species of these two species will be in your barrel, or if you have a preference for either Quercus petraea or Quercus robur, then I would think it would be simple: contact them. Their e-mail and phone number are at their web site. I am sure they will be happy to answer questions.

By the way, an American oak barrel it is usually made from Querqus alba. But might be instead made from Q. prinus, Q. bicolor, Q. mueh. lenbergi, Q. stellata, Q. macrocarpa, Q. Iyrata, or Q. durandii. Quite a bit of uncertainty there. Source. And the source of the oak is just as obscure as well.

For what it is worth, I am not trying to advocate for this company or even for European Oak in general. Rather pointing out it is easy to criticize, especially in an information vacuum, and there are always two sides to any argument.

Personally, I would recommend using a barrel made from oak most near the winery. That would express more the regional terroir of the wine. That is, IMHO, California wine in French oak is just trying to be a Bourdeau wine for commercial reasons rather than taking the risk being different. But for the hobbyist, then price does matter, and the source of the oak may not be important. Or even if owning a barrel (which is difficult to maintain and has a finite life span) is necessary over using other options such as oak chips.

 

[Boatboy24]

Got it form Harford. Don't know what they sell. It didn't leak and gave nice oak, but the best thing of all, it's a great night light

They are Hungarian, from the Zemplen mountains. I believe that is where the Vadai oak is from as well. Not sure who makes the barrels that Harford sells though.

 

[Ajmassa]

Got it form Harford. Don't know what they sell. It didn't leak and gave nice oak, but the best thing of all, it's a great night light

Gotta love that Chernobyl wood. Store it in the nursery with your 3 armed newborn.
Personally I only use barrels with staves crafted from Louisville Sluggers used strictly by first ballot hall of famers.

 

[ibglowin]

You missed the whole point. Potential buyers want to know where the wood specifically was grown. What country in "Eastern Europe"..........

The species of oak is secondary to the source IMHO.

Of course they state which ones they use. They use Quercus petraea and Quercus robur, which I already stated. Those are the only two oaks used in cooperage in Europe from reputable coopers.

http://www.iscbarrels.com/2017/03/30/oak-species-for-cooperage/

If you want to know which specific species of these two species will be in your barrel, or if you have a preference for either Quercus petraea or Quercus robur, then I would think it would be simple: contact them. Their e-mail and phone number are at their web site. I am sure they will be happy to answer questions.

By the way, an American oak barrel it is usually made from Querqus alba. But might be instead made from Q. prinus, Q. bicolor, Q. mueh. lenbergi, Q. stellata, Q. macrocarpa, Q. Iyrata, or Q. durandii. Quite a bit of uncertainty there. Source. And the source of the oak is just as obscure as well.

For what it is worth, I am not trying to advocate for this company or even for European Oak in general. Rather pointing out it is easy to criticize, especially in an information vacuum, and there are always two sides to any argument.

Personally, I would recommend using a barrel made from oak most near the winery. That would express more the regional terroir of the wine. That is, IMHO, California wine in French oak is just trying to be a Bourdeau wine for commercial reasons rather than taking the risk being different. But for the hobbyist, then price does matter, and the source of the oak may not be important. Or even if owning a barrel (which is difficult to maintain and has a finite life span) is necessary over using other options such as oak chips.

 

[Ajmassa]

You missed the whole point. Potential buyers want to know where the wood specifically was grown. What country in "Eastern Europe"..........



The species of oak is secondary to the source IMHO.

I didn't miss the point. I fully understand. And would share the same sentiment if i was in your shoes as a winemaker. Meaning- making wine on a larger scale with a high standard. But I think you missed my point.
This company may not be top of the line and unclear of wood sources, and copy and pasting material on their site with no paragraph breaks, but none of that is a dealbreaker for some us; The ones who make wine as a hobby without getting too deep. So while some might laugh them off, others might buy their product and have success without stressing over details. (relative to individual standards).
Just a perspective from the other end. I appreciate a company making equipment that's more affordable for the more basic home winemakers.
Also, the Chernobyl crack was just continuing to stretch out a good joke.

 

[ibglowin]

Dude,

I was not even talking to you!

But I think you missed my point.

 

[Ajmassa]

Dude,



I was not even talking to you!

No, no you weren't. Somehow overlooked that giant quote in your post.
Or maybe a specific far Eastern European logging supplier meddled with the website to skew my perception.

 

[ibglowin]

I quoted balatonwine so not sure how I missed "your point" LOL

Either way,

I would not purchase anything today without having a solid answer on the Country of Origin. Maybe just me but especially with an item that your are gonna do a 3-6 mo "solvent soak" with meaning "ethanol", meaning wine........

I personally would want to know Country of Origin and then species of oak after that.

YMMV as they say!

 

[Redbird1]

The fact that the country of origin isn't listed would make me hesitant. If it came from a respected source, I have a feeling they would mention it.

 

[FTC Wines]

WOW! TMI, but that's all good. I didn't want to start such an intense debate. I'll still research it more & when I get back from our 3 month RV trip, I'll visit their store in St. Augustine, see if I can get answers in person. I'll bring it up again then. Thanks, Roy

 

[Ajmassa]

I was pretty curious myself since their barrels piqued my interest. Specifically the prices and amount of available sizes. 1st time I noticed a 15 gal barrel which is ideal for my demi's. So I shot them an email earlier today asking for more clarity regarding the oak. Hope I don't get the run-around.

 

[mainshipfred]

I don't want to open up another debate, but out of shear curiousity I pulled the bunge and measured the thickness of the stave of the Harford 6.5 barrel. It was just under 7/16 which is real close to .41. The exposed ends were 1". My guess would be smaller barrels don't require anything thicker. Plus the home hobbist is probably a little more careful handling their barrels. Larger commercial barrels due to rougher handling and larger storgae volumes probably do have to have thicker staves. Would like to know the stave thickness of a similar sized Vidai barrel if anyone cares to measure.

 

[FTC Wines]

WOW! TMI, but that's all good. I didn't want to start such an intense debate. I'll still research it more & when I get back from our 3 month RV trip, I'll visit their store in St. Augustine, see if I can get answers in person. I'll bring it up again then. Thanks, Roy

Fred, When I measured the stave at the head on my Valdai it was a full inch. The barrel was full of sanitizer solution so I didn't want to put my vernier caliper into the solution. Wild guess it is a 1/2 inch. Roy

 

[Boatboy24]

Wild guess it is a 1/2 inch. Roy

Not too far from 7/16.

 

[Johny99]

One local winery uses full size, reworked barrels. He says the are shaved to nlt 5/8. Not sure it means anything, but thinner staves would be a $ saver, but do they matter to you? This guy basically feels that if he hadn't found reworked barrels, he'd have a tough time making it. That and he has a halibut permit in Alaska