Experienced with grapes - new to juice

[MJD]

Hello,

Moving west coast --> Massachusetts has left me without a steady supply of locally grown grapes. I'm aware of a few "local" vendors (within a 90 minute drive) who bring in grapes from the west coast in the CT/MA area...I intend to take advantage of that, but this is a chance to maybe experiment with juice hot packs or pails for varietals I have never attempted before.

A recent thread on Walker's in NY (https://www.winemakingtalk.com/thre...-place-walkers-ships-juice.68139/#post-716623)
got me looking at that option and others. My question, about juice in general in regards to red varietals...how does it stack up against using fresh grapes?

I'm curious how they extract color/tannin/etc without kicking off fermentation. Is it a cold soak? Should I expect a lighter body wine with the absence of skins?

Thanks in advance for satisfying my curiosity.

 

[Boatboy24]

There's a reason wineries ferment on the skins. While you can make pretty good red wine with a juice bucket, I think you'll be lacking something without some skins. You can add tannins to make up some of the difference. I've done a few white wines from juice buckets and have been very pleased. If cost comes into play and using all grapes isn't an option, some (including me) have used a bucket of juice with a lug or two of grapes.

 

[MJD]

I can certainly see a place for a combo skins/juice approach, especially if the skins are left over from another fermentation. I've done that with leftover Cabernet skins on a blueberry wine to good effect.

I'm certain to order up some white varietal juice in the near term since the lack of skin contact isn't a showstopper, at least not for my typical style of making whites.

Referencing the Walker's link above, they have some pretty good deals (at least from what I can tell) on juice. I'll definitely do a white...I might give the Baco Noir a shot and try to manage the tannin situation appropriately. Thanks!

 

[Trick]

I guess very likely they use the Flash Release method to extract color and tannin to make juice buckets or kits. The downside is that some flavor will be stripped and might result in lean flavour andso-called kit flavor. That is why the high end red kits come with skin to compensate the deficiency of this extraction method. Here is an good article to read:
https://www.dtpacific.com/dev/wp-co...-Thermo-Extraction-What-can-it-do-for-you.pdf

No need to go through this with white grape. So the white wine from juice bucket can be very close to the commercial version.

 

[trolo]

Hello I have used Walkers for some reds (concord, Fredonia) and a few whites. I also made a cab franc from another winery, All juice in bucket and I have been told that it was very good. I happen to really like Walkers.

 

[user 36973]

I've made loads of wine with Walker's juice. The red juice is fruity and lacks body, compared to on-skins. They heat the crushed red must to extract color. Little tannin is extracted. So their reds make good off-dry to sweet wines but won't make a quality dry wine like you can get using grapes. IMHO

Their whites are typically very good quality and make nice wine. Vidal juice from them won me a "best in class" from Indy Intl wine competition a few years ago.

 

[MJD]

Trick - thanks for the article, good reading and gives me something I haven't heard of yet. Trolo - thanks for the affirmation of good batches. jgmillr1 - I'm leaning towards the whites and right now it's a decision between Vidal, Traminette, and Seyval. Lord knows I'll probably end up doing all three....

 

[user 36973]

Vidal, Traminette, and Seyval

I've made all 3 from Walker's juice and have more vidal being delivered in two weeks. The only trouble I've run into was with the traminette.

I split a load of their traminette with another winemaker down the road two years ago and we were both disappointed with the quality. It seemed the grapes were picked over ripe, which emphasizes honey flavors, reduces the floral and was a little astringent. Might have been a one off problem or a supplier issue though.

I've gotten seyval a number of times with no trouble besides being in short supply at times. No worries about that now since I'm growing it and probably won't be ordering more.

 

[MJD]

Was that a recent order, or several years ago?

 

[user 36973]

Was that a recent order, or several years ago?

The traminette issue was 2 seasons ago.