Finer Wine Kit Experiment with yeast starter

[ratflinger]

Thought I'd share. I've been making FWK kits with a yeast starter recipe from MoreWine. Their recipe using Go-Ferm and Fermaid-O. I wanted to see if it made a difference from using the chems provided by FWK. This made a fine starter, kicked the yeast off in just a few hours, must fermented strong without excessive foaming. Went dry in about a week, although I usually left it in the primary for around a month.

So I split a Sang/Merlot and used the Go-Ferm recipe in one and the FWK chems in the the other. Ran this out 3 months and my taster (wife) said very little to no difference in taste or mouth feel. Terminated the experiment and am going back to std FWK chems, why pay extra for the Go-Ferm when there is no appreciable difference in the outcome?

 

[Khristyjeff]

Thanks for sharing this information and for going to the effort to compare. I'm not one to do too may "tests", so your curiosity, and shared results, I find very helpful.

 

[winemaker81]

Great experiment, thanks for sharing the results!

 

[ovjock]

This certainly is thought provoking, thanks. I guess I see Go-ferm (and all the other accelerators we use) as insurance. After picking, transporting, crushing, pressing, aging, racking and bottling, I have a pretty good investment. You really only get one shot per year and I want to maximize my potential for success.

 

[ratflinger]

This certainly is thought provoking, thanks. I guess I see Go-ferm (and all the other accelerators we use) as insurance. After picking, transporting, crushing, pressing, aging, racking and bottling, I have a pretty good investment. You really only get one shot per year and I want to maximize my potential for success.

I can easily see your point. I only make kits, but with fresh grapes there well may be advantages. I experienced no disadvantages using Go-Ferm and was happy using it. I just saw no advantage to pay twice for the chems, since FWK's products worked well also.

 

[wineview]

I use Go-Ferm for starters and Fermaid O for primary fermentation. These products are natural. Ever since I read that DAP (FWK nutrient) is like junk food for yeast, I can’t get myself to use it. DAP is Diamonium Phosphate and Urea. Here is another interesting fact.

Urea has important uses as a fertilizer and feed supplement, as well as a starting material for the manufacture of plastics and drugs.

Diammonium phosphate is the world's most widely used phosphorus fertilizer. It's made from two common constituents in the fertilizer industry, and its relatively high nutrient content and excellent physical properties make it a popular choice in farming and other industries.

 

[winemaker81]

This certainly is thought provoking, thanks. I guess I see Go-ferm (and all the other accelerators we use) as insurance. After picking, transporting, crushing, pressing, aging, racking and bottling, I have a pretty good investment. You really only get one shot per year and I want to maximize my potential for success.

I've been using Fermax for a long time, and use it in my starters. I looked at the cost of Go-Ferm and the various Ferm-Aid products, and stuck with Fermax.

Why? Because I've yet to have a problem using it and cost. All the overnight starters I've made since 2021 (when I started making them) have all taken off quickly and the ferments progressed as fast or faster than expected. And Go-Ferm and Ferm-Aid cost twice as much.

I'm not advising against using the more expensive products, but I don't see the value they bring.

Last year a vendor sent me a pound of DAP in place of the Fermax I ordered. When I complained they reimbursed me for the cost and told me to keep it (not worth it to them to pay shipping back). So I'm using about 1/3 DAP when adding nutrient until the DAP is gone.

I can easily see your point. I only make kits, but with fresh grapes there well may be advantages. I experienced no disadvantages using Go-Ferm and was happy using it. I just saw no advantage to pay twice for the chems, since FWK's products worked well also.

There's no significant difference between a kit and fresh grapes from a fermentation POV. Once the starter is successful (yeast has reproduced) it's all yeast eating sugar. The resulting wine will differ, but that's a different discussion.

I thought about it, and the cost of kits is not necessarily less than grapes. Things vary so much it's hard to say. My CA grapes are expensive 'cuz I have to pay for trucking from CA to the vendor (MA or NJ), then to NC. In contrast the grapes I purchased from @VinesnBines cost just a bit over half, although it was a 4 hour drive each way to get the grapes. The Sangiovese juice buckets we purchased cost less than most kits ($65 USD)

Because I'm sharing with my son & niece, I track the per-bottle cost of all shared wines, and they reimburse me for the cost of each case they take. This has given me a different perspective on winemaking and costs.

 

[Bmd2k1]

These days...I use GoFerm for my yeast starters and FermaidO for nutrient additions -- and have been very happy with the results. When I first started making kits - I used whatever the came with the kit.

Have I noticed a substantial difference -- not really.

However - I FEEL more confident with my current protocol -- and that's All that really matters to me ;-)

The evolution of my vino making ;-)

Cheers!

 

[winemaker81]

However - I FEEL more confident with my current protocol -- and that's All that really matters to me ;-)

Very true!

 

[BPL]

I am not a chemist but have a strong passion for making wine as best as possible. I have studied as much material as I can find about the growth of yeast cells and how the cells process sugar. Part of my studies have included GoFerm and Fermaid O&K. IMO, GoFerm by itself is not worth the expense or trouble. Combining GoFerm and accurate doses of Fermaid (s) definitely makes a difference, compared to pitching dry and using DAP in a single dose. GoFerm gently wakes up the yeast cells and prepares the outer membranes for the work to come. The osmosis efficiency [sugar in, alcohol and CO2 out] is one of the keys to a better wine. The more efficient and stronger cells, the less stressed they are. I think we can all agree that stressed cells can turn out some awful tastes. The third part of the efficiency of the GoFerm/Fermaid use is controlling fermentation temperatures. I have conducted controlled experiments between using a sugar starter/DAP nutrient and GoFerm/Fermaid. The GoFerm/Fermaid batch won hands down multiple times. Of course, YMMV