Other Extended Maceration Eclipse Lodi 11 Cab

[sour_grapes]

Well, @sour_grapes, I almost successfully replaced the answer to @motherofgallons question with my soapbox.

I hear you, my friend!

 

[Monty Knapp]

Great thread. Started my first EM about 2 weeks ago on an RJS Australian Cabernet Shiraz. Planned to do it in a 7 gallon glass wide mouth carboy from Kegco - but it wasn't big enough - so I started it in a primary bucket instead - and ordered a 7 gallon FerMonster. At an SG of about 1.010 I transferred EVERYTHING to the Fermonster and put it under an airlock. Airlock was bubbling once evey 3 seconds for a couple days then started slowing down - so enough CO2 should have been produced to adequately blanket the wine. Now I'm just waiting. It's still bubbling every 45 - 60 seconds.
Plan to do an 8 week EM, but - do I start that 8 week clock from initial start of fermentation? Or from the end of fermentation?

 

[jgmann67]

Great thread. Started my first EM about 2 weeks ago on an RJS Australian Cabernet Shiraz. Planned to do it in a 7 gallon glass wide mouth carboy from Kegco - but it wasn't big enough - so I started it in a primary bucket instead - and ordered a 7 gallon FerMonster. At an SG of about 1.010 I transferred EVERYTHING to the Fermonster and put it under an airlock. Airlock was bubbling once evey 3 seconds for a couple days then started slowing down - so enough CO2 should have been produced to adequately blanket the wine. Now I'm just waiting. It's still bubbling every 45 - 60 seconds.
Plan to do an 8 week EM, but - do I start that 8 week clock from initial start of fermentation? Or from the end of fermentation?

I always start from the start... so start counting on the day you dropped yeast in your wine. [emoji16]

 

[SLM]

OK I thought I'd play with the big boys and do an EM on a Chilean Malbec. I cut the kit down to 5 gal, fermented in a 7.9 gal bucket, read this thread and got worried about excessive headspace so I racked into a 6.5g Big Mouth. But by then fermentation was complete, so I added 1/4 tsp KMeta. Problem is, minus the heavy sludge I now only have 5.5g in a 6.5g container, including skins. Airlock bubbles maybe once every 2-3 minutes. What would you do? Should I abort this mission and get it in a carboy?

 

[crushday]

I cut the kit down to 5 gal

If you don't mind divulging, why did you cut it down to 5 gallons?

 

[SLM]

Ha, I see, you're trying to get me to answer my own question! Put in all the water and you won't have that problem, junior! Well, everyone here says to experiment. I love a rich, concentrated wine. My first couple of kits I felt like I was diluting just to increase volume, thus thinning the wine. So this time I wanted to keep it thick. I got the idea from Joeswine and his Tweaking threads. Not much experience under my belt so perhaps I'm rolling the dice, we'll see.

Anyway, I think I found a solution. As I'm reading here about filling the void with CO2, I'm thinking, Where can I find a CO2 canister on short notice? Hmmm. HOW ABOUT THE ONE IN YOUR KEGERATOR, DUMMIE? Oh ya, that should work just fine.

 

[jgmann67]

Ha, I see, you're trying to get me to answer my own question! Put in all the water and you won't have that problem, junior! Well, everyone here says to experiment. I love a rich, concentrated wine. My first couple of kits I felt like I was diluting just to increase volume, thus thinning the wine. So this time I wanted to keep it thick. I got the idea from Joeswine and his Tweaking threads. Not much experience under my belt so perhaps I'm rolling the dice, we'll see.

Anyway, I think I found a solution. As I'm reading here about filling the void with CO2, I'm thinking, Where can I find a CO2 canister on short notice? Hmmm. HOW ABOUT THE ONE IN YOUR KEGERATOR, DUMMIE? Oh ya, that should work just fine.

Dropping a gallon, what was your starting specific gravity?

 

[SLM]

1.116, 12 days later .994

 

[jgmann67]

1.116, 12 days later .994

That’s about 16% ABV. That’s pretty hot.

Bubbles are probably just CO2. If you check your SG over the next few days and it remains at that 0.994, for sure..: it’s just CO2.

As for racking. You can do 8-9 weeks on an EM and that CO2 will help protect the wine from oxidation. As long as you keep those grape skins wet till the submerge on their own (which should happen any day now if it didn’t happen already), you’re fine.

But... (and this is just my opinion. YMMV) I don’t know that I would run two experiments at one time. You’re shorting your water AND doing an EM on the same wine, without knowing how you like either. Suppose your finished wine isn’t to your liking. It’s hard to know which experiment is the culprit.

 

[Gilmango]

Glad to have found this thread, been reading about EM since I joined WMT but somehow missed this one till now. Read all 13 pages today. I'm commenting in part to see future responses, but I do have a question as well.

Has anyone compared EM lengths of time on kit wines? I want to do EMs going forward, but from what I've read most of the benefits are realized in 3-4 weeks. However, most folks doing EM here seem to be doing 6-8 weeks. Has anyone compared a shorter EM with a longer EM?

Basically, I'm eager to start a new EM ferment (RJS EP Super Tuscan), but will need my choice Speidel fermenter in 4-6 weeks when I get a Finer Wines kits which needs to be started pretty much upon arrival (no room in fridge and it is shipped cold and is not pasteurized). Today I just learned that the Finer Wines is shipping about 3 weeks later than originally expected, which gives me at least a 4 week window to do the RJS batch first. I'm guessing 4-5 weeks of EM will be plenty. And if the Finer Wines arrives on the early side I can just start fermenting it in a bucket for its first week of Active Fermentation, then move it to the Speidel, basically that would give me at least 4 weeks more likely 5 or 6 weeks of EM with the RJS Super Tuscan. And I'd do the same duration of EM with the Finer Wines Super Tuscan (as I'm very interested in comparing an 18L kit with a similarly priced 6L kit).

Any thoughts? Anyone ever compare EM durations?

 

[jsbeckton]

I’ve done the RJS super Tuscan by the book and 6 week EM. Both are about 3 years old now and that exactly the same to me. I’d have to check my notes to see if I thought differently during the first year or so but my 5-6 kit wines done with EM didn’t really impress me overall.

Disclaimer: I have since given up on kits and moved to all grape so those that really enjoy kit wines might be able to provide better feedback.

 

[Old Corker]

@Gilmango I have pretty much the same dilemma with a WE Fiero kit I have delayed starting while waiting for the Finer Wines kit to arrive. Did you hear something from Label Pealers that the FW kits are delayed?

 

[Gilmango]

@Gilmango I have pretty much the same dilemma with a WE Fiero kit I have delayed starting while waiting for the Finer Wines kit to arrive. Did you hear something from Label Pealers that the FW kits are delayed?

Yes, there is a thread dedicated to Finer Wines kits, someone asked about updates on delivery, and it came out that the latest prediction is that they would ship out on the 2nd or 3rd week of May. The original prediction was 2-4 weeks from when orders were allowed on April 5th, so basically it has now slipped to 5-6 weeks (from April 5th). Since it is only their 2nd commercial production run, with added varietals and overall kit numbers, I would not be shocked if it ships even later in May. Here's the thread, see the very last post on page 4: Finer Wine Kits

So based on that I went ahead and moved my first extended maceration kit (RSJ EP Amarone, 54 day EM) out of the Speidel and into secondary on Thursday, and started the RSJ EP Super Tuscan (old 18L size). The Amarone smelled and tasted great for its young age, great color and body, fun to squeeze the muslin sack for more liquid. I guess now I'm hoping the Finer Wines Super Tuscan ships at the later end of their predicted window (2nd or 3rd week in May). But either way I think I can EM this RJS for at least 4 weeks where I hope I will get most of the early benefits of EM. If the Finer Wines ships on the early side, I will start that one in a bucket for active fermentation, giving the RJS an extra week of EM before it goes to secondary.


Thanks @jsbeckton for the response a couple posts above, I suppose it could be that the upside of EM is just accelerating early returns (I'm hoping from what I've read that EM wine tastes more complex/mature/full bodied/finer tannins early on) and maybe that upside fades over time? I do wish Tim Vandergrift did a later comparison of his original two EM vs. non-EM wines, the two which started the whole kit wine EM fervor. Also was hoping someone had done a comparison of EM wines at say 4 weeks vs. 8 weeks. I do have one more of the 18L RJS EP Amarone kits (I stocked up a bit before the kits were down-sized), so I guess I could run that after the two Super Tuscans finish, for a 27 day EM (since my first one was in for 54 days).