feeling confounded

[beardy]

I have some apple wine that I have started. I have already racked into a secondary and when I topped up with sugar dissolved in water it started it very vigorously fermenting again. I have been reading a lot about degassing and realize that this is something that almost everyone differs their opinion on . So should I have degassed when transferring to the secondary, or should I let this continue to ferment out until it's dry a second time and then when racking later degas then?

 

[Julie]

Can you post up your recipe? Is hard to diagnosed a problem if we do not know what went into the must and what you have done. And you do not degass a wine that is still fermenting.

 

[jamesngalveston]

it probably was not finished fermenting to start with.
did you add campden are k=meta.
did you add sorbate are equal stabilizer....
what was the starting sg, and the sg when you racked into the secondary.

 

[cimbaliw]

Hey Beardy, I'm roughly 8 months into this and have already had two referments. One was an (Ed Wort's) Apfelwein. I added wine conditioner at three months but did not degas. The best part of the story is that two weeks ago I (vacuum racked) degassed and added sulphite and sorbate. It's been stable ever since and tastes pretty darn good at sg 1.006. I may bottle this weekend as I'm tired of looking at it. The other was a Dragon's Blood to which I committed the Cardinal Sin of adding more Sulphite and Sorbate after degassing. My wine thief says that my sins are forgiven, it tastes great.

In addition to providing the recipe, I'd keep track of the SG values and post those as well. I suspect you have several good options at this point.

 

[beardy]

it probably was not finished fermenting to start with.
did you add campden are k=meta.
did you add sorbate are equal stabilizer....
what was the starting sg, and the sg when you racked into the secondary.

Campden - yes
Sorbate - I dont think so. I added some yeast nutrient.
Starting SG 1.080
At racking 1.009 (about 11 days)

 

[jamesngalveston]

Potassium sorbate disrupts the reproductive cycle of yeast. Yeasts present are unable to reproduce and their population slowly diminishes through attrition.

Potassium sorbate is added in the amount of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of wine. Sorbic acid results and stabilizes the wine. Usually the crushed Campden and potassium sorbate are dissolved in a cup or two of the wine to be stabilized and stirred thoroughly. Allow the stirred wine to sit a few moments and look for small white lumps of undissolved powder. If present, continue stirring until the wine is clear without any undissolved lumps. This is then added to the larger batch and stirred in well.

 

[beardy]

Potassium sorbate disrupts the reproductive cycle of yeast. Yeasts present are unable to reproduce and their population slowly diminishes through attrition.

Potassium sorbate is added in the amount of 1/2 teaspoon per gallon of wine. Sorbic acid results and stabilizes the wine. Usually the crushed Campden and potassium sorbate are dissolved in a cup or two of the wine to be stabilized and stirred thoroughly. Allow the stirred wine to sit a few moments and look for small white lumps of undissolved powder. If present, continue stirring until the wine is clear without any undissolved lumps. This is then added to the larger batch and stirred in well.

Great explanation! Thank you!

 

[Boatboy24]

The reason your fermentation got vigorous is because you fed the yeast by topping up with sugar water.

 

[beardy]

The reason your fermentation got vigorous is because you fed the yeast by topping up with sugar water.

So then I should only add water?

 

[saramc]

So then I should only add water?

Ultimately when you choose to top up with water you are diluting your final product. Many go this route but you have other options, such as:
-craft your batch with an extra 3 cups or so per gallon and you can use a simple 750ml bottle, or glass jar, to hold any excess until needed
-top up with a similar or coordinating flavor of juice or sugar-water which is the same gravity as the starting gravity
-make a few gallons of potato wine and use it as a neutral wine specifically for topping up. If you typically make 12% batches, then make a 12% ACV potato wine
And prevent racking loss by pouring that tail end of lees + juice into best fitting jar, seal it, and refrigerate so it quickly clears and you can siphon that residual amount of must off of those lees. Hope this helps.

Far too early to tackle degassing on the first racking. You will want to let this must finish fermentation, rack again & then serially rack about every two months; maintain SO2 levels by adding k-meta on quarterly basis. Continue on this pattern until the must is clear & no longer drops sediment for 60 days. If you allow this to occur naturally without use of finings you 'should' have a clear, lees free, degassed wine in about 6 months. Just remember if you plan to manually degas it helps if the batch is at 75F, otherwise that dissolved CO2 just likes to stay in solution. Should definitely be degassed on its own at the year mark, which will be a good time to consider how to finish this and prepare for bottling, such as stabilize with k-meta + sorbate and sweeten up, or if leaving dry just stabilize with k-meta and then proceed to bottle. Classic pattern for an apple wine crafted in the range you have.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Sometimes people confuse an eruption caused by adding sugar or other particles to a gassy must as a restart of the ferment when its just causing the gasses to release because you just added millions of nucleation points. To know if you have renewed fermentation you need to take gravity readings, that also helps you to know how much to backsweeten or to step feed more sugar to raise the alcohol. Did you take any gravity readings? WVMJ

I have some apple wine that I have started. I have already racked into a secondary and when I topped up with sugar dissolved in water it started it very vigorously fermenting again. I have been reading a lot about degassing and realize that this is something that almost everyone differs their opinion on . So should I have degassed when transferring to the secondary, or should I let this continue to ferment out until it's dry a second time and then when racking later degas then?

 

[beardy]

I have been keeping a journal of what I have been doing for my first wine batch. I thought I would post my notes (so far) to see what I could be doing different or better. Maybe I should be keeping records of more activities or happenings but since this is my first run (with my first try at a fresh fruit batch coming this weekend) I thought I'd try for some feedback.
Thanks!!


Apple wine - First Batch - Eve

June 23 - 10:24am - Made the must from a 12oz can of apple juice and 2 medium lemons. The lemonade was all crappy kinds and none with actual juice. I didnt strain it that well though. Just whatever the juicer strained. I dont remember the brand of apple juice but it was white plastic with a green plastic top. I used campdon tablets to sanitize the jug and funnel but I rinsed them out with hot water before use.

I didnt have a long enough stir stick so I just mildly swished and shook the jug to get the mixture moving around.

Everything went into the jug and was airlocked and put in the HP closet. It stays almost constantly between 77°-79°. Hopefully this won't be too warm.


June 24 - 11:00am - adding yeast. Hydrometer reading: test temp 80°
SG - 1.076
Balling 21%
PA - 10%
Added 2 cups water with half cup sugar disolved. Added sugar to half boiling water and added rest of water cooled. Put in freezer til 75°
2nd test 77°
1.080
PA - 11%
Added Montrachet yeast set back in HP closet.

June 28 - 2:12pm - Fermentation has slowed. Temp continues to be in the high 70s and might be the reason, but it seems the sugar was a little low also so it may just be finishing. I'll test SG when I get back from AZ.

July 2 - 9:48am - got back from AZ today and checked the wine. Still bubbling but very slowly. Temp at about 80° and I'm fairly sure thats too high. The airlock moves at about one bubble per 30 sec. Am going to check the SG today and see where we're at. Pretty sure its racking time.

10:23 am - must temp 80°
SG - 1.006 + .003 for temp difference
1.009.

Made syrup of 1c sugar in 2c water, boiling. 2 cups water in fridge to offset heat. Together the 4 cups Cooling to 50° hopefully to overall cool the must.

2:33pm - must temp 72°
Racked into secondary. Added about 2 cups of sugar water.
SG 1.022 plus .02 for temp difference.
1.024 SG.
Added ~1 tsp DAP.
Added 1 very crushed campden tablet. (None was added to primary)

July 3 - 3:54am - temp at 58° turned off cooler. Bubbles visible, so fermenting away still. Don't know if I should be stirring daily with this simple recipe or if I should be letting it be. The temp in the cooler should rise a bit being off but I'll see how it is in the (later) am. Maybe ill set an AC timer on the cooler to only come on for a certain amount of time to keep it at 70°

 

[cpfan]

July 2 - 9:48am - got back from AZ today and checked the wine. Still bubbling but very slowly. Temp at about 80° and I'm fairly sure thats too high. The airlock moves at about one bubble per 30 sec. Am going to check the SG today and see where we're at. Pretty sure its racking time.

10:23 am - must temp 80°
SG - 1.006 + .003 for temp difference
1.009.

Made syrup of 1c sugar in 2c water, boiling. 2 cups water in fridge to offset heat. Together the 4 cups Cooling to 50° hopefully to overall cool the must.

2:33pm - must temp 72°
Racked into secondary. Added about 2 cups of sugar water.
SG 1.022 plus .02 for temp difference.
1.024 SG.
Added ~1 tsp DAP.
Added 1 very crushed campden tablet. (None was added to primary)

Two items that I see here.

1) No mention of potassium sorbate. That is OK, as long as you are expecting the added sugar water to be fermented. If you wanted to sweeten the wine, K-meta and sorbate should have been added first.

2) Adding the campden (K-meta) will probably interfere with the fermentation. I doubt it will stop it, but it should slow it or even pause it. Not sure what you expected to accomplish, but this was not a good time to add it.

Steve

 

[beardy]

Two items that I see here.

1) No mention of potassium sorbate. That is OK, as long as you are expecting the added sugar water to be fermented. If you wanted to sweeten the wine, K-meta and sorbate should have been added first.

2) Adding the campden (K-meta) will probably interfere with the fermentation. I doubt it will stop it, but it should slow it or even pause it. Not sure what you expected to accomplish, but this was not a good time to add it.

Steve

Well that answers one question! HAHA! I didn't know K-meta was the campden tablet. I thought that was separate thing to buy. It's still fermenting about 1.012 today so once it's down to 1.000 I will get the sorbate to let it sit for a while... I did rack today, which after I did it I was thinking 'Well that was dumb I'm not at 1.000 yet...' But ultimately I would have sweetened anyway so I don't think it's that bad of a deal. I'm thinking waiting it out at this point will be the safest thing to do. I fudged it up and I confuse myself with what I SHOULD have done with what I should do NOW.

 

[seth8530]

Well that answers one question! HAHA! I didn't know K-meta was the campden tablet. I thought that was separate thing to buy. It's still fermenting about 1.012 today so once it's down to 1.000 I will get the sorbate to let it sit for a while... I did rack today, which after I did it I was thinking 'Well that was dumb I'm not at 1.000 yet...' But ultimately I would have sweetened anyway so I don't think it's that bad of a deal. I'm thinking waiting it out at this point will be the safest thing to do. I fudged it up and I confuse myself with what I SHOULD have done with what I should do NOW.

Yep, the one thing I would like to stress is that sorbate does not stop fermentation, it only prevents renewed fermentation. Just make sure that the wine is finished fermenting by checking the SG a few times over a period of time to make sure it is really done before adding the sorbate.

Then you can add whatever sugar you want to sweeten it back up with.

 

[wineforfun]

beardy,
Start reading through some of the recipes on here for different wines. This will give you an idea of the basic winemaking process so you will know what to expect and when to do things in the future, ie: when to rack, when to add K-Meta, when to add Sorbate and backsweeten, etc.
I think you will find it very helpful.