Fermentation Gusher - Good or Bad?

[vinividivici]

My 6 gallon juice bucket of Carmenere went volcanic on the second day of fermentation.

I made a yeast slurry with Lalvin RC-212 at the proper temp, let it sit for 15 minutes, and then stirred the foam. It was pitched into the bucket, which I had previously added yeast nutrient to.

When I checked it on the morning of the second day, it had foamed through the airlock and the sides of the screw top ( I left it on loosely).
I had to mop up wine from the floor.

The initial SG was 1.090 and my reading today is .990. Should I rack everything out of the bucket for a secondary fermentation with the SG that low?

 

[rjb222]

This is the problem using buckets for a primary fermenter. You do not have enough room for a very active ferment. Invest in a nice lidded primary and you will never have this problem.

 

[vinividivici]

This is the problem using buckets for a primary fermenter. You do not have enough room for a very active ferment. Invest in a nice lidded primary and you will never have this problem.

Hard to see, but this bucket has a screw top lid. It's covered with the foam. I think if I had tightened it, the airlock would have blown off. LOL

What did you have in mind? Are you referring to a stainless steel fermenter?

Thanks,
Bob

 

[cpfan]

The initial SG was 1.090 and my reading today is .990. Should I rack everything out of the bucket for a secondary fermentation with the SG that low?

Yes, primary fermentation is finished.

Steve

 

[cpfan]

Hard to see, but this bucket has a screw top lid. It's covered with the foam. I think if I had tightened it, the airlock would have blown off. LOL

What did you have in mind? Are you referring to a stainless steel fermenter?

Thanks,
Bob

Not necessarily s/s. Plastic is fine. But a primary fermenter should be larger than the amount of must/juice being fermented. EG 8 US gallon primary for 6 US gallons of must/juice.

In this case, it looks like you used the 6 gallon pail that the juice came in. Your results are a bit messier than I would have expected but still in line with my thoughts.

PS it's not necessary to have an air lock on a primary fermenter.

Steve

 

[vinividivici]

Thanks, Steve. I assumed so, but don't like to assume.

Just saw your second reply. This isn't the original bucket the juice came in. It has a spigot on it and have used it many times. The Malbec juice had a steady, non-explosive fermentation and will also be racked today. The Carmenere, however, went nuts. Thinking back, I remember now that the Carmenere was shipped with juice up to the very top of the bucket.

Your point is well taken re a larger primary and I'll be buying a couple as "preventive medicine" for future wines.

Are you off of the QEW? We go through the region on our way to Michigan from NY.


Bob

 

[Chateau Joe]

Bob,

I started my 3 pails in carboys and they all did the same thing. Don't worry this is normal.

Rack them off.

 

[robie]

Your fermentation bucket should be a couple gallons bigger than your quantity of must. If you don't have bigger buckets, you can split your fermentation between more than one bucket.

You don't need an air lock during primary fermentation; only during secondary.

Set your fermentation bucket in a small tub, so if this happens again, the tub will contain the spill.

 

[rjb222]

This is one like I use for my primary.

There are several different types shapes and methods. Some are smaller some are bigger and there are different ways to accomplish the same goal as has been referred to in all the answers. The goal is to have the necessary room for proper fermentation to take place. First the primary stage of fermentationon aerobic there is necessary exchange oxygen that needs to take place for a healthy ferment. This can be done several different ways but the easiest is head space and a loose fitting lid.During the secondary there is not as much space needed as the foaming and the anaerobic phase takes place oxygen is not desirable during this phase.

 

[jswordy]

If you are in a pinch, run to Home Depot and buy a 20- or 32-gallon BRUTE trash can. Food safe (it is imprinted on lid and bottom with that info).

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc...d=10053&langId=-1&keyword=brute&storeId=10051


Good price. (IIRC, the 20-gallon is $19.95 or so.) It's nice to have a 30" racking cane for these, but I used a 24" for a long time before I bought the longer one.

They have them in white online if you want to pay shipping for a white one.

 

[robie]

If you are in a pinch, run to Home Depot and buy a 20- or 32-gallon BRUTE trash can. Food safe (it is imprinted on lid and bottom with that info).

http://www.homedepot.com/h_d1/N-5yc1v/R-100342585/h_d2/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10053&langId=-1&keyword=brute&storeId=10051


Good price. (IIRC, the 20-gallon is $19.95 or so.) It's nice to have a 30" racking cane for these, but I used a 24" for a long time before I bought the longer one.

They have them in white online if you want to pay shipping for a white one.

I agree. Also, you can get 1, 2, 3 and 5 gallon food grade containers free from the Wal-Mart and Target bakeries. Just ask.

Some models of the 5-gallon paint buckets and lids at Home Depot are also marked as food grade.

 

[rjb222]

Again we run into the issue of food grade and plastic. Not all food grade plastic is safe for fermenting alcohol. Each plastic container is lined at the factory with a liner that is intended for the type of material to be stored in it. These liners are specific as to their leaching properties. The numbered arrow on the bottom of the bucket or tub will tell you which type of material is intended to be stored. Look at the bottom of a real plastic fermenter and match that number you are fine. But going out and buying a plastic bucket that is food grade just because it is cheaper than the one with the proper liner in it for fermenting alcohol could lead to leaching problems as the liner could be dissolved by the chemicals in a ferment.

 

[robie]

Again we run into the issue of food grade and plastic. Not all food grade plastic is safe for fermenting alcohol. Each plastic container is lined at the factory with a liner that is intended for the type of material to be stored in it. These liners are specific as to their leaching properties. The numbered arrow on the bottom of the bucket or tub will tell you which type of material is intended to be stored. Look at the bottom of a real plastic fermenter and match that number you are fine. But going out and buying a plastic bucket that is food grade just because it is cheaper than the one with the proper liner in it for fermenting alcohol could lead to leaching problems as the liner could be dissolved by the chemicals in a ferment.

I am glad you brought this out, anyway, as it gives us all something to consider. This way we can consider the issue and make our own decision.

Are you saying the thousands of home wine makers, who use food grade brute trash cans for fermenting, are somehow hurting their wine? We are talking about fermenting, not long term storage.

 

[cpfan]

Are you off of the QEW? We go through the region on our way to Michigan from NY.

Bob...live in Welland, so not too close to the QEW.

Steve

 

[rjb222]

Leaching is the problem. The leaching if it happens will not effect aging and probably not flavor but there is a substance in all plastic that is a carcinogen. This is BHT the baby bottle thing brought this forward a couple years ago. I do not know whether Brute food grade is or is not one that leaches into your wine I am saying compare the arrow number to make sure. It is the chemistry of the liner that protects you from the BHT so if your product you are storing in that container makes a hole in that liner you have a leaching problem.There is not one single liner used but several designed chemically to resist the acids or the bases ETC that are chemically specific of the product that is intended by the manufacturer of the plastic pail or tub.

 

[vinividivici]

After perusing this some more, and someone's reply that the primary doesn't need an airlock, I remembered some kits I used last year. They said to drape a cloth (cheesecloth or something similar) across the top of the fermenter. I did that and the wine turned out just fine.

If I had done that it seems that the gas could have escaped in more volume and quicker than using the airlock and the resultant gusher.

Does anyone else use this method?

 

[Chateau Joe]

After perusing this some more, and someone's reply that the primary doesn't need an airlock, I remembered some kits I used last year. They said to drape a cloth (cheesecloth or something similar) across the top of the fermenter. I did that and the wine turned out just fine.

If I had done that it seems that the gas could have escaped in more volume and quicker than using the airlock and the resultant gusher.

Does anyone else use this method?

You will still get the eruption with or without the airlock. The key is space for the foam, hence the dicussion above about pails. My friends started their Chilean in a 7.5 gallon juice pail and they too had eruptions.

 

[vinividivici]

Joe, to answer a question you asked earlier, yes, I bought the juice from Mark. Love to have 6 gallons of juice instead of kits with all the added water, etc.

It's funny, the Malbec juice had a steady fermentation with the airlock bubbling continuously. The Carmenere, on the other hand...

I'm definitely going to be using larger pails for the primary. But do you cover loosely, use an airlock, or put a towel across the top?

And I'll check out the grape growers org that you mentioned.

Cheers!
Bob

 

[mmadmikes1]

at. 990 fermentation is finished, not just primary but all fermentation. Time to rack, degass and stabilize

 

[vinividivici]

Is My Carmenere Batch Ruined?

A flat "growth" has appeared on the surface just below the neck of the carboy. I've been checking the levels of wine in the necks of my three batches and can't believe this one lost so much liquid.

Regardless, this looks like a fungal growth that a friend of mine had in his beer batch. His was thick and rubbery and turned out to be harmless. I haven't poked through mine yet as I wanted to get some opinions on this.

It's been racked three times since starting from juice in May 2012 and K-Meta was added in June 2012. Final racking was Dec 2012.

The odd thing is that this "thing" seems to be providing an air barrier.