First Batch ever!

[Rice_Guy]

I second this! especially taste more than once since flavor changes after brushing teeth, after eating sweet foods, after eating proteins, etc

@The green Dragon, YOU are why I spend time in the beginner forum. As much as I enjoy talking to experienced wine makers, the exuberance of beginners is invigorating!

First advice: take a deep breath and relax. Winemaking is an exercise in patience. Sure, the first few weeks are very exciting!!! After that? It's a lot like watching the grass grow. Only less exciting.

Second? After fermentation, oxygen is your enemy. But it's a slow enemy - a day without water in the airlock is not a problem. Several weeks or even months? This is a different story.

Third? Taste your wine!

I taste my wines at every racking. People will tell you to not open a bottle before a year -- they are wrong. Open a bottle every 3 months. Write down what you smell, taste, and experience. Compare your notes. Educate yourself why you should let wines age. Nothing is better than practical experience.

Fourth? Don't worry about shelf life. Your first batch won't last long enough to go bad.

Welcome to WMT!

 

[The green Dragon]

Ok tried it. i opened the primary fermenter gave it a stir, i tasted it.
It smells wonderful the color is so beautiful even though its not clear and the carbonation is intense, then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated
There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?

 

[ithink2020]

Ok tried it. i opened the primary fermenter gave it a stir, i tasted it.
It smells wonderful the color is so beautiful even though its not clear and the carbonation is intense, then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated
There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?

I wouldn't worry too much about it. I always sanitize my hydrometer and cylinder and dump the sample back into the must.

It looks like at about 1.010.

 

[VinesnBines]

I agree, you appear to be 1.010.

You didn't contaminate the wine. The alcohol level is high enough to kill off he tiny bits of bacteria. Next time, take a smaller amount to taste.

The foam will settle after a few minutes. Leave it for 5 or 10 minutes. Anyway, right now you are watching for dropping SG not precise numbers.

 

[Rice_Guy]

then i dumped what was left in my glass only to realize now it’s contaminated, , ,
There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks.

I always dump the cylinder back into the fermentor, and stopped sanitizing cylinder/ hydrometer over ten years ago, ,,, it is cleaned when put away
The rate of change on hydrometer units is equal therefore we can project an imaginary line from the wine surface to measure. ie 1.010. I have three hydrometers, a narrow range and my mom’s agree, my wine store hydrometer is off by 0.002 from the others,
,, there is error and all we are looking for is the relative change from the last reading.

 

[winemaker81]

I use a Fermtech wine thief -- it's large enough in diameter than I can draw a sample, drop in the hydrometer and check SG, then put the entire sample back in the fermenter with almost no air contact. And you can reserve a bit to sample ...

I don't normally taste during primary fermentation, but I do at every racking. The technical term for this is "quality control".

 

[David Violante]

There was so much bloody foam that i couldn’t get a clear read on the hydrometer ive attached some pictures to see if those experienced with these hydrometers can just look at it and know. im not in the finished zone for wine on the dummy marks. Any tricks to keeping foam down when taking a SG reading?

Agree with everyone here as well... you should also gently spin the hydrometer or twirl it back and forth a couple of times to get any CO2 bubbles off. That having been said, you’re really just looking for major change at this point and not small incremental changes. I like the wine thief idea by @winemaker81. I usually taste at every check as well. It really helps you understand what’s going on.

 

[winemaker81]

That having been said, you’re really just looking for major change at this point and not small incremental changes.

Agreed. During fermentation, the big question is "is it done?". For most wines, if the SG is above 0.998, it's not, and all you need a rough reading to determine how close to "done" fermentation is. [Allowing for the fact that the yeast will do what it wants, not what you want.]

Another check point is when 1/3 of the fermentation is done, many folks add more nutrient. If the OG was 1.090, anything close to 1.060 is the target, and if it's off by a few degrees in either direction, it doesn't matter.

IMO, the first and last readings are the critical ones where I want accuracy.

 

[The green Dragon]

Sg was 1.000 yesterday hopefully racking soon.
Looking for .996

 

[The green Dragon]

Ok so .995 I did my very first rack!! Added the sorbate and the sulphites and degassed a bit with a spoon (going with the recommended advice of just time) no buubling now whatsoever so i must have stopped fermentation successfuly I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize. Today I will be adding the keisosol and included clearing agent.
Following the kit instructions on this first batch, but it seems like something is a miss i thought it would take much longer i was hoping to bulk age for like six months, but all the things the kit say seams counter intuitive My next batch I want to mess with it a bit and boost the alcohol high enough that it can sit on a shelf for ten years.

 

[VinesnBines]

Ok so .995 I did my very first rack!! Added the sorbate and the sulphites and degassed a bit with a spoon (going with the recommended advice of just time) no buubling now whatsoever so i must have stopped fermentation successfuly I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize. Today I will be adding the keisosol and included clearing agent.
Following the kit instructions on this first batch, but it seems like something is a miss i thought it would take much longer i was hoping to bulk age for like six months, but all the things the kit say seams counter intuitive My next batch I want to mess with it a bit and boost the alcohol high enough that it can sit on a shelf for ten years.

Frist, I wouldn't add the keisosol and chitosan at this point. If you bulk age for 6 months, it will clear on it's own. I've made that kit with tweaks three times and never used clearing agents.
Second, cold crashing won't prevent oxidation. Keep your carboy topped up to one inch or so from the stopper or bung to prevent oxidation and keep it in the dark.
Third, don't worry about the kit directions.
Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.

Just put that batch to bed for the next three months and start your next batch. In three months, add more Kmeta. You have permission to taste now and then but keep it topped up.

 

[The green Dragon]

Frist, I wouldn't add the keisosol and chitosan at this point. If you bulk age for 6 months, it will clear on it's own. I've made that kit with tweaks three times and never used clearing agents.
Second, cold crashing won't prevent oxidation. Keep your carboy topped up to one inch or so from the stopper or bung to prevent oxidation and keep it in the dark.
Third, don't worry about the kit directions.
Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.

Just put that batch to bed for the next three months and start your next batch. In three months, add more Kmeta. You have permission to taste now and then but keep it topped up.

What do you top it up with if all the wine is in the carboy? Can i use any wine from a bottle of the same wine type, or water?
Also Whats Kmeta?

 

[VinesnBines]

Get a bottle of cheap Cab Sav to top up with; seriously cheap stuff is fine. Kmeta is the sulfites you used, Potassium Metabisulphite. You can get it anywhere you get wine making supplies. You use 1/4 tsp for 6 gallons. Since you just added the packet of sulfites, don't add more for at least three more months.

 

[winemaker81]

@The green Dragon, did the SG hit 0.995 and you immediately racked, degassed, and added K-meta/sorbate? If so, that's not quite what you want to do.

Do not sweat it. You haven't ruined your wine. If fermentation wasn't 100% done, it was close enough.

Fermentation is not necessarily complete at 0.995. I've had wines go to 0.990 -- this depends on grape type, red vs. white, ABV, etc. I don't know that anyone can give you a firm answer regarding why one fermentation stops at 0.997 while another stops at 0.990.

For kits, I typically rack between 1.010 and 1.000, moving the wine to a carboy with head space, as fermentation is not done, and give it a good stir to ensure there is a CO2 cushion. If I thought the fermentation was done? I'd do the same.

From there I give the wine 3 to 10 days to complete fermentation -- depending on the SG when I racked, the amount of activity in the airlock, AND the amount of sediment that is dropping. When fermentation is done, sediment drop is heavier.

Then I check the SG, and if it's 0.994 or lower, I call it done. If it's above 0.994, I give it a few days. Then I rack, degas, and add the fining agent.

It sounds like your SG hit 0.995 and you went gonzo!

If so, yeah, I'm laughing -- but with you, not at you. Exuberance and passion are beautiful things.

My son's first wine, a kit Shiraz, hit 1.000 and he went gonzo. A week later he asked me about it. OOPS! The fermentation was slow enough that the sorbate/sulfite prevented a it from progressing. [DO NOT count on this happening if the ferment is not 100% done -- popping corks in the rack is the more likely outcome!]

He was very unhappy with the outcome, as like me he likes his reds bone dry. However, 6 months after bottling the wine tastes pretty darn good! It wasn't what he planned for, but it worked out well. Very few of his friends are dry wine drinkers, so most are really happy with it.

 

[winemaker81]

Fourth, I don't know that a kit wine will ever last 10 years on a shelf.

I made a Apple-Riesling Fun Wine that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!

@The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".

Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.

 

[The green Dragon]

@The green Dragon, did the SG hit 0.995 and you immediately racked, degassed, and added K-meta/sorbate? If so, that's not quite what you want to do.

Do not sweat it. You haven't ruined your wine. If fermentation wasn't 100% done, it was close enough.

Fermentation is not necessarily complete at 0.995. I've had wines go to 0.990 -- this depends on grape type, red vs. white, ABV, etc. I don't know that anyone can give you a firm answer regarding why one fermentation stops at 0.997 while another stops at 0.990.

For kits, I typically rack between 1.010 and 1.000, moving the wine to a carboy with head space, as fermentation is not done, and give it a good stir to ensure there is a CO2 cushion. If I thought the fermentation was done? I'd do the same.

From there I give the wine 3 to 10 days to complete fermentation -- depending on the SG when I racked, the amount of activity in the airlock, AND the amount of sediment that is dropping. When fermentation is done, sediment drop is heavier.

Then I check the SG, and if it's 0.994 or lower, I call it done. If it's above 0.994, I give it a few days. Then I rack, degas, and add the fining agent.

It sounds like your SG hit 0.995 and you went gonzo!

If so, yeah, I'm laughing -- but with you, not at you. Exuberance and passion are beautiful things.

My son's first wine, a kit Shiraz, hit 1.000 and he went gonzo. A week later he asked me about it. OOPS! The fermentation was slow enough that the sorbate/sulfite prevented a it from progressing. [DO NOT count on this happening if the ferment is not 100% done -- popping corks in the rack is the more likely outcome!]

He was very unhappy with the outcome, as like me he likes his reds bone dry. However, 6 months after bottling the wine tastes pretty darn good! It wasn't what he planned for, but it worked out well. Very few of his friends are dry wine drinkers, so most are really happy with it.

Yeah i went gonzo i was tottally excited and just went for it. I like dry reds I take it thats not what I’m gonna get? This was helpful I’ll be doing the extra racking and checking sg more often next time!

 

[The green Dragon]

I made a Apple-Riesling Fun Wine that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!

@The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".

Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.

So why cant i just add more sugar and yeast to eat it? Isn’t there a direct correlation between abv and how long it will cellar, or am I missing some other factors ?

 

[The green Dragon]

I made a Apple-Riesling Fun Wine that I chaptalized to 11.7% ABV go 7.5 years. Given that the Fun Wines are cheap kits, I'm totally surprised, but not unhappy!

@The green Dragon, if you have any of your first batch left a year after bottling, I'll be surprised. Until you're making wine, you don't realize how fast it "evaporates".

Think about it -- you bottle a carboy and get 25 bottles. If you open 1 bottle per week, that entire batch is gone in less than 6 months.

I have a feeling you are right, that is if this batch turns out drinkable.
it might end up down the drain to reuse the bottles,

 

[winemaker81]

So why cant i just add more sugar and yeast to eat it? Isn’t there a direct correlation between abv and how long it will cellar, or am I missing some other factors ?

ABV, acid, sugar, and fruit quality all add into longevity. I can't speak intelligibly on the subject except for the basics.

Low end kits, like Fun Wines, are more concentrate than juice, and in my experience they do not have the shelf life of higher end kits. Given that Fun Wines typically come out 7% ABV, the longevity expectations are even lower.

Based upon my understanding, jacking the ABV up to table wine levels should not have been enough. In my case, the Riesling had higher acid and there was some residual sugar. Add it all up, and it worked. I could make another batch today and not get that longevity. It may be that Dionysus smiled upon my batch and blessed it.

Many beginners start with the expectation they're going to make a wine that lasts 25 years. It's an unrealistic expectation, as very few wines have that kind of longevity. If I have a few bottles left at the 7 year mark, I call that good! The longest I've had is a metheglin where the last bottle was 10 years old.

If your batch lasts 2 years? Call it good and make some more!

 

[dmw_chef]

I also cold crashed it too so it doesn’t oxidize.

Solubility of gasses in fluid increases as fluids get colder; cold crashing actually increases risk of oxidation.