Flavoring with Vanilla

[dfwwino]

I am contemplating adding vanilla to some wine after fermentation is complete. Does anyone have any experience with using vanilla beans versus vanilla extract? I have read that I should slice the beans open, but I would appreciate feedback on two issues. First, which produces a better flavor, extract or beans? Vanilla beans are much more expensive than extract and I just want to make sure they are worth it. Second, if I use beans, how many should I add for five gallons to obtain a cherry vanilla flavor in a cherry wine? If I use extract, how much should I add to five gallons for the same purpose?

 

[NorthernWinos]

I've used vanilla beans...2 beans in the primary give a very light flavor because the wine isn't in the primary very long...


2 in the carboy for awhile extracts more flavor [guess the alcohol the wine has obtained by the time it reaches the carboy extracts the vanilla more]...but keep an eye on it...taste often...it can become too much.


Some say to make vanilla extract with the beans and some brandy or vodka and then add that to the wines...haven't done that.


Toasted oak gives the vanilla flavor as well.

 

[dfwwino]

Thanks NW. I was actually thinking of soaking the beans in some Vodka, as I also make cordials and thought it might do a good job extracting the flavor. I suppose I will throw two in the secondary and taste periodically like I do for oaking and add more beans if necessary.

 

[masta]

I have used both beans and extract in mead and I found the beans do a much better job as you would expect. I splitand scraped them and placed everything in the secondary for the best extraction.

 

[s.arkvinomaker]

I've not used Vanilla extra but Chocolate and several others that George sells in his shop. My experience is alittle goes a long way. I wanted a little back flavor of chocolate in a Blackberry/Rasberry Merlot I made. It was a
1 gal. batch and added half the bottle which is less than 1 oz. when full. So it is actually a .65 oz bottle so I added .32 oz. Point is be very moderate should choose to go this route.When I use this route I'm avoiding diluting acohol implace of adding juice and I add when finishing a wine just as a kit maker would add a flavor pack.

 

[dfwwino]

Yes, I am always careful to add the extract or concentrates a little at a time. I discovered that the hard way a long time ago.

 

[smurfe]

I used some high dollarvanilla beans in a raspberry wine. Didn't come out that great. I believe I had too high a starting SG and my finished wine has too much alcohol and tastes hot. Looks like the final calculations put the ABV at around 12.5%-13%. I was shooting for 10%. Guess I got in a hurry and didn't read the hydrometer correct.Overpowers all fruit and vanilla flavors. Could be over powering oak to. I only left it on oak for 2 weeks but it is pretty oaky.You live and learn.

 

[joeswine]

GOOD morning,I make my own extracts and have good sucess with them,as far as vanilla beans are concernd madagasgar are the best in the world,I get them from beanvinilla in boston,I have made my extract useing grain alcohol-95 proof/by the ball jar full with 6 beans and yes split them thats how the flavor is really extracted,let them set for a month and smell the aroma,I also placed 3 beans into one gallon of white zinfindal let it set a month very nice,alot can be said about the smooth taste of vanilla///

 

[joeswine]

what form of vanallia did you use????

 

[joeswine]

good morning,I've used vanilla,with great sucess,I think the key to any fruit wine is fruit forward,then the F pac and then the extract in which ever flavor you choose,taste,taste,and taste.all along the way//jp

 

[Ess-Sea vineyard]

I am about to try my very first batch of wine. Would you recommend adding any vanilla? Using valiant grapes. Trying to read as much info as possible.

 

[winemaker81]

I am about to try my very first batch of wine. Would you recommend adding any vanilla? Using valiant grapes. Trying to read as much info as possible.

As this is your first batch, I advise against it. Make a few batches to get a personal feel for the process, then branch out. There's a lot to learn up front. It's not hard (says the guy who's been doing it a long time) but it may feel overwhelming at times during your first few batches.

 

[Ty520]

I've used vanilla beans...2 beans in the primary give a very light flavor because the wine isn't in the primary very long...


2 in the carboy for awhile extracts more flavor [guess the alcohol the wine has obtained by the time it reaches the carboy extracts the vanilla more]...but keep an eye on it...taste often...it can become too much.


Some say to make vanilla extract with the beans and some brandy or vodka and then add that to the wines...haven't done that.


Toasted oak gives the vanilla flavor as well.

there are two things to consider when adding in primary.

the fermentation process is going to blow off a lot of the delicate flavors and aromas. (this is why many professional bakers will recommend only using pure extract in desserts after heating or that aren't heated, and using artificial in baked goods - because it is wasted otherwise)

but on the flip side, while it might diminish the flavors and aromas, many feel they tend to come across as more integrated when added in primary - akin to adding baking spices in the raw batter before baking as opposed to sprinkling it on after

 

[winemaker81]

there are two things to consider when adding in primary.

the fermentation process is going to blow off a lot of the delicate flavors and aromas. (this is why many professional bakers will recommend only using pure extract in desserts after heating or that aren't heated, and using artificial in baked goods - because it is wasted otherwise)

but on the flip side, while it might diminish the flavors and aromas, many feel they tend to come across as more integrated when added in primary - akin to adding baking spices in the raw batter before baking as opposed to sprinkling it on after

My take-away from your comments is to do both, as you make excellent points.

Add half during fermentation to integrate that flavor into the wine. Add the other half during bulk aging to introduce a brighter flavor and aroma.

 

[Ty520]

My take-away from your comments is to do both, as you make excellent points.

Add half during fermentation to integrate that flavor into the wine. Add the other half during bulk aging to introduce a brighter flavor and aroma.

to clarify, with vanilla, i do not add it in primary because so much of the fine nuances will get blown off by the fermentation process...

but with other intense spices like cinnamon, i do add in primary.

and another consideration...

it is hard to know what your outcome is going to be if you do it in primary unless you've done test batches and have good control and time tested recipes, whereas in secondary you can sample and pull right when you feel it is ready to go.

which reminds me of yet another important consideration...

vanilla aroma and flavor tends to diminish greatly over time so go a bit stronger than what you'll actually want the final product to be because it'll be noticeably diminished even 6 months down the road

 

[winemaker81]

with vanilla, no because so much of the fine nuances will get blown off in primary...

You're right, but at the same time, you may be missing an important point.

Salting food at the beginning of cooking changes the basic structure of the food. You don't taste the salt, but you taste the underlying effect.

Salting food at the table? You taste the salt. This is not bad, but it is different.

This is yet another great experiment -- make 3 batches of wine:

B1: add vanilla during fermentation.
B2: add vanilla during bulk aging.
B3: Add vanilla during both.

 

[BigDaveK]

I'd be very interested (and I'm sure others also ) in the experiment that Bryan suggested.

I've experimented with spices in small batches and my take is be cautious. Unintended consequences are easy to achieve.

The only time I used vanilla (so far) was just prior to bottling my coffee wine. With that it was a great addition.

 

[Ty520]

To be honest though, I absolutely love vanilla, and probably add it to most of my meads, so any which way is OK with me

 

[Rice_Guy]

I am about to try my very first batch of wine. Would you recommend adding any vanilla? Using valiant grapes. Trying to read as much info as possible.

No, at a level of 2ml per five gallon it will be obvious, consider using an oak product because the tannins in oak are antioxidants which give shelf life along with vanilla notes.
Maybe at 1ml per five. Carmel might also be looked at.

the standard way to check flavor is to do a bench trial looking at several levels.

 

[winemanden]

We had a chap, who worked in the lab at general foods, in our wine club. He told us that a lot of chocolate makers add vanilla extract, which has a similar flavour profile. He said they add it so that they can use cheaper chocolate, as it enhances the flavour.
Vanilla is the most expensive spice in the world, but a little goes a long way.