WineXpert Follow instruction exactly or not?

[mikefrommichigan]

I have made about a dozen Winexpert kits this year. Some are still aging in carboys and the rest have been bottled. They are all really clear and taste great.
I started a new kit several weeks ago and decided to re-read the instructions again this morning before the stabilizing and clearing step, and realized the instructions say:

NOTE: Do NOT rack the wine before stabilizing and fining. This kit requires that you stir the sediment back into suspension. Racking the wine off the sediment prior to fining may permanently prevent clearing. Please be sure to stir all of the sediment up from the bottom. The wine needs extremely vigorous stirring during this stage. Without hard stirring, trapped gas in the wine will prevent clearing degassing.
1 Dissolve contents of package(s) #3 (metabisulphite) and package(s) #4 (sorbate) in 125 ml (½ cup) of cool water. Add to carboy and stir vigorously for 2 minutes to disperse the stabilisers and drive off CO2. Be sure to stir up yeast sediment from the bottom, and stir hard enough to agitate gas out of the wine.

2. Shake contents of package(s) #5 (Chitosan or isinglass clarifier). Carefully cut open the corner of the pouch(es) and pour contents into carboy. Stir vigorously for another 2 minutes to degas the wine. If you do not degas the wine completely, it will not clear.

3. For F-pack kits……

4. Fill airlock halfway with water and reattach bung and airlock to carboy.

I followed the instruction to the letter and ended up with very cloudy wine again. Although the instructions do not say so, I assume there may have to be several more racking stages to get really clear wine.
This is the first time I have stirred the sediment back into the wine at this stage, before adding the metabisulphate and sorbate. In my previous wines I racked off the sediment before adding the meta etc and degassing.

I know there are many ways to make kits but what do others do at this step?

A Happy and Healthy New Year to everyone

 

[DoctorCAD]

I follow exactly except for time. Have not had a cloudy wine yet.

 

[scram]

Perhaps you didn't degass adequately... Where are you in the process???

 

[jumby]

I follow exactly except for time. Have not had a cloudy wine yet.

+1

The only thing I do differently is I stir vigorously with a wine whip for 15-20 mins instead of a few mins per the instructions when clearing.

 

[calvin]

All the sediment will settle to the bottom again.

I think some of the more expensive kits have you rack at this step and the cheaper kits have you stir everything up. In the end I don't believe it makes much of a difference.

 

[mikefrommichigan]

I also degassed for approx 15 - 20 minutes with a wine whip. I do not expect to get cloudy wine when bottled as the sediment will re-settle to the bottom of the carboy again. Just means having to rack a few more times.

 

[Dhaynes]

I also follow the instructions as closely as possible. The kit manufacturers have spent many years, spent a ton of money and made probably tens of thousands of their kits refining their kits and processes to produce consistent good repeatable results. If they put a step in the instructions it is because they have concluded that is what works best. The only thing I do differently is to rack all of my wines including the less expensive ones the same number of times they recommend for the expensive kits.

That being said, I do have an Island Mist Strawberry White Merlot kit that I stabilized and added the fpack and clearing agent to about two weeks ago. It still hasn't finished clearing but it is making progress. I plan to add the magic wine making ingredient, TIME, and let sit for another week or two or whatever it takes. I had the same problem with another IM kit that I made almost two years ago. It eventually cleared great and won a bronze medal in last years Wine Maker Magazine's international competition.

One other comment about degassing, I've seen several articles and videos by Tim Vandergrift who worked for Winexpert for years and wrote all of their instruction booklets that if you are degassing more that 2-3 minutes on high with a good wine whip that you are just wasting time by making foam. Below are links to a YouTube video and a an article on degassing.


[ame]https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6keN0eG14lY[/ame]
http://www.timvandergrift.com/?cat=66


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making

 

[tanddc]

The reason you stir up the sediment in the secondary is because it contains the bentonite you added to the primary in the first step. I have yet to have one not clear, even with gas and a reduced quantity of the chitosan.

 

[Putterrr]

I always rack before degasing and stabilizing with every kit I do regardless of the manufacturer. To date I have never had a clearing issue. I only make 6 week premium and 8 week ultra premium kits. Dont know if that makes a difference or not.

Following the instructions means you will not void your warranty if problems arise. Most of my kits are older from the clearance rack and have no warranty anyway so it doesn't matter what I do to them.

cheers

 

[bkisel]

My RJS kits always have me racking before stabilizing and fining. When and if I ever do a WE kit (my LHBS now carries WE in addition to RJS) I will follow the WE instructions exactly.

 

[Dugger]

The WinExpert kits use a one part fining agent and use the sediment to bind to and clear the wine, whereas Spagnols kits and perhaps others use a two part clearing agent and do not need the sediment to do its job.

 

[wineh]

Whether I'm making a WE kit without grapeskins (don't rack before stabilizing) or a WE kit with grapeskins (rack before stabilizing), I follow that step fairly closely.
As a side note, have you noticed that the instructions for the WE Selection 6 week (6x7=42) kits have you bottling on day 39 if you follow (and have no clarity issues) them exactly?

 

[richmke]

I've done it both ways. Admittedly by mistake. Both ways turned out fine. However,

With the most recent kit, an IM kit, I followed the directions, and it didn't become crystal clear until after the 2nd racking after clarifying - still a little hazy after the first racking. Full disclosure: I didn't degass, so maybe that was the problem.

Note: I normally do not clarify and let time do the work. In this instance, I needed the wine clear for the IM competition, so followed the directions.

Interestingly, at the most recent racking (2nd after clarifying), there was a 1 inch hazy layer right above the sediment. The rest of the wine was beautifully clear. I didn't want to do the normal "if it flows it goes", because that would have dispersed the haze back into the clear wine. So, I racked down to the hazy layer (filled a 5 gallon carboy), and then racked the hazy layer into a 1 gallon bottle. That 1 gallon bottle is starting to clear.

 

[mikefrommichigan]

Thanks again for the replies. I will let you know the progress if I encounter any issues.

 

[freqflyer]

I also follow the instructions as closely as possible. The kit manufacturers have spent many years, spent a ton of money and made probably tens of thousands of their kits refining their kits and processes to produce consistent good repeatable results. If they put a step in the instructions it is because they have concluded that is what works best. The only thing I do differently is to rack all of my wines including the less expensive ones the same number of times they recommend for the expensive kits.

That being said, I do have an Island Mist Strawberry White Merlot kit that I stabilized and added the fpack and clearing agent to about two weeks ago. It still hasn't finished clearing but it is making progress. I plan to add the magic wine making ingredient, TIME, and let sit for another week or two or whatever it takes. I had the same problem with another IM kit that I made almost two years ago. It eventually cleared great and won a bronze medal in last years Wine Maker Magazine's international competition.

One other comment about degassing, I've seen several articles and videos by Tim Vandergrift who worked for Winexpert for years and wrote all of their instruction booklets that if you are degassing more that 2-3 minutes on high with a good wine whip that you are just wasting time by making foam. Below are links to a YouTube video and a an article on degassing.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=6keN0eG14lY
http://www.timvandergrift.com/?cat=66


Sent from my iPad using Wine Making

I have been using this technique for a long time. It works well. When you hear and feel the shudder of the wine as you reverse it, you know a lot of co2 is about to come out.

I will say that having had two batches erupt on me, that carboy he is using to demonstrate with isn't completely saturated with co2.