Fortifying with brandy vs. everclear?

[harleydmn]

Not to high jack a tread, but was wondering how long after adding the brandy do you bottle?

 

[ibglowin]

You should wait at least a month for things to integrate somewhat. I bulk aged for ~9mo on the wine. Fortified then waited ~4months for the brandy and wine to marry. Then bottled.

 

[harleydmn]

Thanks, Mike

 

[ibglowin]

Like those old Ronco commercials on TV winemaking is perfect for people who can "set it and forget it!" At least for a few months or so. :>

 

[Runningwolf]

Like those old Ronco commercials on TV winemaking is perfect for people who can "set it and forget it!" At least for a few months or so. :>

Well once again to add something to what Mike said. I fortified two ports as most of you know with ButterShot and one with Hazelnut liqour. I filtered and bottled a week later. Today I looked at my bottles and I have stuff falling out that looks like a dark liquid. Now to decide, do I dump it all and let it sit and rebottle or live with it. Not a proud wine maker today.

 

[JohnT]

I think that you are getting this because you used a liquor. The all over solubility of port is much less than liquor. I would give it time and let all the smutce settle out, rack it and make the call at that time.

 

[Runningwolf]

Thanks for the info John I appreciate it. I will wait as you suggest.

 

[Sirs]

well I've always used everclear or really high abv moonshine to fortify any wines I've made the moon always gives a taste but the everclear never does to mine at least. You have to give it a few months to marry, but all of mine have always been really smooth wouldn't want it if it wasn't. Anyway using less of the everclear to me gives you more of the taste of the wine itself. I'd never want to fortify a wine that wouldn't be able to handle a higher ABV. Myself I think that's alot of most people's problems is the want to make a good wine higher ABV when it can't handle it.

 

[Polarhug]

Would it be more advisable to use Everclear if I did not want any further sweetness or body, since Brandy has more of both? It's for a Cab Sauv Port, that is sitting on oak right now. Already tastes awesome.

 

[Sirs]

well there are some who say not to mix wine and grain spirits that they'll never marry,I never had trouble with mine after a couple months you wouldn't think it had as much alcohol in it as it did. I added enough everclear to mine to get it to an ABV of 40% and I've not had anyone that didn't think it was awesome. like I've said before adding everclear you add less to get the higher ABV so only stands to reason you lose less of the original taste and body

 

[joeswine]

To Everclear or not to Everclear

It's been my experience that when using Everclear , you have to be careful not overpower the taste of the wine that it's entering, always remember Everclear pure alcohol and has a taste difference from a finished wines alcohol, Brandy has a fetish of its own and sometimes parts its own on the fruit wine ........ giving you something you didn't want.

The best that is to stick with the Everclear by taste Colella time not overpower the wine alcohol , it will distract the body but it could distract and taste so . Be patient , work with diligence and good taste . E

 

[Sirs]

like Joe said add it till it taste like you want it too.... besides taste is why we do it all to begin with, we make what we think taste good. I normally make wine or whatever for ME to drink/like on occasion my wife will ask for something for her. If someone else happens to like it all the better a drinking partner.

It's been my experience that when using Everclear , you have to be careful not overpower the taste of the wine that it's entering, always remember Everclear pure alcohol and has a taste difference from a finished wines alcohol, Brandy has a fetish of its own and sometimes parts its own on the fruit wine ........ giving you something you didn't want.

The best that is to stick with the Everclear by taste Colella time not overpower the wine alcohol , it will distract the body but it could distract and taste so . Be patient , work with diligence and good taste . E

 

[Midwest Vintner]

In my experience, which is limited in this regard, using an alcohol with flavor will add flavor, but be sure it's a wine that will mix with that particular type AND brand. We have made a very good apricot brandy and also have used bourbon for pecan wine. Everclear will simply amplify the abv, without adding too much flavor, since there's not much real flavor in it. Do you want to keep the taste of the wine or do you want to add to it???? Ask that question of yourself. If you like the pie, do you want ice cream with it?

 

[Sirs]

In my experience, which is limited in this regard, using an alcohol with flavor will add flavor, but be sure it's a wine that will mix with that particular type AND brand. We have made a very good apricot brandy and also have used bourbon for pecan wine. Everclear will simply amplify the abv, without adding too much flavor, since there's not much real flavor in it. Do you want to keep the taste of the wine or do you want to add to it???? Ask that question of yourself. If you like the pie, do you want ice cream with it?

mmmmm pie and icecream with good wine sounds good to me

 

[Polarhug]

Great points! Since we love the flavor, body & sweetness of the port Cab-Sauv already I think we will go with Everclear to boost it just a tad. It is at about 16% by my calculations. Sounds like I should add it NOW while it is aging, and not before bottling - right?

And the problem with tasting as you go is after 3-4 tastes it ALL tastes great lol...

 

[shoebiedoo]

Are you using the Pearson Square ti figure out how much everclear to add? I wouldn't trust my taste buds

 

[whackfol]

Up front, I have not made a fortified wine. However, in addition to saying a Holiday Inn, I spent a good amount of time in the Duoro Valley and both witnessed port being made and had a chance to talk with a couple of winemakers. First, do not use Grappa. It is distilled pressed skins and, in some cases, stems are included. The brandy they use is distilled from local wine (tinta roriz, tourega nationale, & tinto cao primarily). It has not been barrel aged. For those of you using Brandy, are you using store bought brandy? If so, is it clear or brown from oak aging? To my knowledge, vintners stop the fermentation at the residual sugar level they target by adding brandy. I do not know what yeast they use, but the abv is sufficient to kill the yeast.

Thoughts/ Questions:
Will adding store bought, aged brandy impart flavors not found in port? Aging port will take on the flavors of the barrel which is what the brandy has done.
Will everclear, a close to neutral spirit, impart a flavor? I can't taste it.
Has anyone just allowed their wine to fully ferment and add sugar and alcohol to boost abv?

 

[Sirs]

I fermented my petite verdot till it went dry and added more sugar and went dry again did that till it finally stopped fermenting from the calculations it went slowly up to close to 24% then I fortified it to 40% with everclear. I know a lot say wild yeast won't go that high but the majority of all my wines go anywhere from 18 to 22% all the time. Most of the time I just get tired of seeing it ferment and wanna drink it lol. I've also found when you fortify blackberry it loses most of that bitter(what I call it) aftertaste you normally get when eating blackberries

 

[ckassotis]

I know we've had some lengthy discussions about this in the past, but I've never seen the grappa comment before actually. Traditional port is NOT made with grappa. Grappa is an italian liqueur, whereas traditional port is made in Portugal. Traditional port is fortified with a neutral grape spirit called aguardiente. I very much doubt you will find this product anywhere in the United States.

While many use brandy, aguardiente that is used for port fortification typically ranges from 50-80% ABV. Much higher than either commercial brandy or any grappa I've seen (even in Italy). The key here is the neutral spirit. If you've tasted grappa, it has a far from neutral taste to it. It would in fact impart a significant flavor to any wine that uses it for fortification.

Here in the states, you have 3 options: 1) untraditional port - step-feed your wine with a high ABV yeast. You can get 18-19% ABV traditionally in this manner without the need for fortification. 2) everclear and 3) brandy.

The everclear vs. brandy debate is an interesting one. I've had plenty of good products that use both options. Some contend that the everclear will never fully mesh with the grapes, while others contend that the volume of commercial brandy needed will dilute the natural flavors too far. Depending on the choice, I think both can be good. My personal preference would be brandy to fortify grape ports and everclear to fortify fruit ports. I don't think brandy fortification works as well for fruit ports as it does for grapes.

 

[ckassotis]

To my knowledge, vintners stop the fermentation at the residual sugar level they target by adding brandy. I do not know what yeast they use, but the abv is sufficient to kill the yeast.

Thoughts/ Questions:
Will adding store bought, aged brandy impart flavors not found in port? Aging port will take on the flavors of the barrel which is what the brandy has done.
Will everclear, a close to neutral spirit, impart a flavor? I can't taste it.
Has anyone just allowed their wine to fully ferment and add sugar and alcohol to boost abv?

Whackfol makes some really good points, and asks some excellent questions. Absolutely correct that traditional port is not back-sweetened. The spirit is added at the desired sweetness, stopping the fermentation immediately.

As to the questions, these are great. Everclear will not impart a flavor. Some say it imparts a "hotness" due to the imbalance in abv, and the fact that it does not mesh well with wine made from fruit. I can say from personal experience that it does not impart a flavor though. From personal experience, I find my blackberry port, that I started 6 months ago, is coming together nicely. I used everclear to fortify and while it tasted quite revolting up until now, it is really coming around. I expect in a few more months it might be spectacular. Here's to hoping!

Not sure about the first question, though it is interesting. I think the long-term barrel aging of port will not be replicated, as it is this gradual oxidation/evaporation that helps give port the unique character that it has.

As to the third, you can certainly step-add your sugar and traditionally get to 18-19%, or some claim even higher with happy yeast.