WineXpert Fourtitude with Grape Skins

[Johnd]

Agree. So far, the two RJS WS Super Tuscans I've done kick its *** by a long shot.

It didn't make the top 100

 

[jgmann67]

So I've got three red kits going right now - the Fourtitude, Bravado and a SLD Merlot. It's a slow Saturday and I decided to take an ounce or so sample of each to compare.

(Pictures would have been a good idea in retrospect).

The Fourtitude and Bravado are slightly lighter colored than the SLD Merlot. Flavor is comparable as far as intensity, and they're about the same (with the SLD edging out the other two on the margins) on body.

 

[AZMDTed]

FWIW, I had my Fourtitude in a barrel for a while, and felt that it still needed an ounce of Toasted Oak Liquid Tannin. At this point it's a decent drinker, though I probably won't try again for another 6 months when it's close to a year old. Bad naming choice though - 'Fourtitude'. Maybe 'Faint-hearted' would have given it less expectation of boldness.

 

[Rocky]

I don't have the mosaic, but I do have the other two. I'm pretty pleased with them both at their current age. Time will tell how they might be in their prime. I'm interested to know why you think they're mediocre and underwhelming. Jim, the wine is best described as "flabby" to me. I tastes like it is from labrusca grapes rather than vinifera. I am not saying it it, I just mean that is how it tastes to me.

I did the LE14 Super Tuscan and that struck me as just kinda blah. And, I was disappointed in the LE15 Fourtitude because it lack a decent attempt at oak. But, I added oak and swapped the yeast. The bravado is way better than the LE14 entry in every aspect.

I am underwhelmed by the LE16 offerings and opted for an RJS RQ this year instead. So, generally I think I'm going to stay away from the WE LE's from now on (unless something makes me go "wow") and just stick to WE's Eclipse and Selection kits.

As a general rule, the Eclipse kits are the way I go. I completely agree with this. My experience with Eclipse series wines has generally been very good.

As has been pointed out on this site many times, it is all a matter of taste.

 

[jgmann67]

As has been pointed out on this site many times, it is all a matter of taste.

True. It's all a matter of taste. There seems to be a universal sense, though, that the LE14 ST is a disappointment and the RJS is a far better ST kit. Likely, the RJS is better than the Bravado will be. As to the Fourtitude, I tasted the commercial equivalent of this wine - the Shotfire Quartage. I agree, the name is wrong. The Quartage is no monster. The Fourtitude is less earthy, than its commercial cousin. Otherwise, they're very similar.

I'm going to age mine a year in the bottle before putting them in rotation. If you still have yours, I'd be interested in a bottle swap.

 

[Johnd]

True. It's all a matter of taste. There seems to be a universal sense, though, that the LE14 ST is a disappointment and the RJS is a far better ST kit. Likely, the RJS is better than the Bravado will be. As to the Fourtitude, I tasted the commercial equivalent of this wine - the Shotfire Quartage. I agree, the name is wrong. The Quartage is no monster. The Fourtitude is less earthy, than its commercial cousin. Otherwise, they're very similar.

I'm going to age mine a year in the bottle before putting them in rotation. If you still have yours, I'd be interested in a bottle swap.

For me, the truth is that I don't know an awful lot about Australian wines, so a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Malbec and Merlot from Australia kinda leaves me guessing as to what it should be.

My brain says a big bold fruity wine with those varietals in there, but most of my commercial wine experience comes from the Californian wines that I like, which tend to be the giant bodied monster wines (mouth watered when I typed that). Currently, my double batch is in a 40l Vadai, having been fermented with leftover skins from a grape wine, I still find it to be rather thin and light, but time will tell.

 

[thruhike00]

For me, the truth is that I don't know an awful lot about Australian wines, so a blend of Cabernet Sauvignon, Cabernet Franc, Malbec and Merlot from Australia kinda leaves me guessing as to what it should be.

My brain says a big bold fruity wine with those varietals in there, but most of my commercial wine experience comes from the Californian wines that I like, which tend to be the giant bodied monster wines (mouth watered when I typed that). Currently, my double batch is in a 40l Vadai, having been fermented with leftover skins from a grape wine, I still find it to be rather thin and light, but time will tell.

John,

Curious what your rotation on the 40l will be unless I missed a barrel post by you. I need another barrel and am on the fence between the 40 and another 23l. Trying to wrap my mind around how long in the barrel on the 40, and if I can age longer in the future with the larger capacity. Any thoughts are welcome.

Disregard...too much wine or need new glasses, or both.

 

[Johnd]

John,

Curious what your rotation on the 40l will be unless I missed a barrel post by you. I need another barrel and am on the fence between the 40 and another 23l. Trying to wrap my mind around how long in the barrel on the 40, and if I can age longer in the future with the larger capacity. Any thoughts are welcome.

Disregard...too much wine or need new glasses, or both.

There was a discussion, but no big deal to repeat. On the 23's, first wine in is one month, second for two, third for three, etc. Max barrel time for a wine, even when neutral, is 6 months, which is considered max in order not to oxidize the wine. This is really based on oak taste, so your time may vary some.

For the 40, I'm pretty much doubling the effort, first wine two months, second four months, third 6 months, etc. Hoping I can eventually leave wines in close to a year when neutral. My first wine is only a month in so far, the Fourtitude, tasted a few days ago, didn't taste much oak yet. Hope that helps.

 

[jgmann67]

Using my headspace eliminator this week to pull a little more co2 from the wine (really surprised there's any in there at all).

 

[jgmann67]

Going to wait a couple weeks to bottle. No wine-related reason. My brother wants to come out and help bottle/capsule/label.

 

[jgmann67]

Flashlight test. So, I placed a bright flashlight at the back of the carboys for the Fourtitude, the SLD Merlot, the Bravado and the Petite Sirah.

There was no light coming through the PS. The Merlot, second darkest, then the Bravado (though they were pretty close). The Fourtitude, with its bright garnet color, let the most light through.

All things considered, I'm not convinced it will live up to the "big, bold, full body" hype in the promotional materials. But, it promises to be a solid addition to the cellar.

 

[ceeaton]

Flashlight test. So, I placed a bright flashlight at the back of the carboys for the Fourtitude, the SLD Merlot, the Bravado and the Petite Sirah.

There was no light coming through the PS. The Merlot, second darkest, then the Bravado (though they were pretty close). The Fourtitude, with its bright garnet color, let the most light through.

All things considered, I'm not convinced it will live up to the "big, bold, full body" hype in the promotional materials. But, it promises to be a solid addition to the cellar.

I thought the flashlight test is when you hide it under your bed, then in the middle of the night sneak down to the basement for a few glasses!

I think if the body isn't up to snuff a little PS added to it will bolster the body considerably.

 

[Rocky]

I just racked and sulfited my Fortitude, which is in bulk aging. I tried some of the left over (racked from a 6 gallon to a 5 gallon carboy with some residual) and it had a somewhat sweet taste to me. It measured SG 0.996 but tasted sweeter than that. I hope it improves with aging although I doubt if I would ever describe it as "big, bold, full body." I am not very pleased with this wine. It is drinkable but not at all remarkable.

 

[jgmann67]

I racked/kmeta'ed the wine this morning and will bottle next weekend. The glass I had was medium to full bodied. I'm not unhappy.

 

[toneill]

Rocky, being somewhat newer to this hobby, 23 kits FY2016 (all dry reds), I have to say I somewhat agree with you overall. I.E. almost all of my kits seem on the sweeter side, even with SG readings indicating they are dry. That being said, I'm not at all unpleased with the drinkability of them, just can't seem to get any of them as dry as my commercial wine consumption love is. Some exhibit some really good flavors for being young (less than a year), however I really desire my bold reds to be dryer than any kit thus far. Anyone have any thoughts? Thx

 

[ceeaton]

Rocky, being somewhat newer to this hobby, 23 kits FY2016 (all dry reds), I have to say I somewhat agree with you overall. I.E. almost all of my kits seem on the sweeter side, even with SG readings indicating they are dry. That being said, I'm not at all unpleased with the drinkability of them, just can't seem to get any of them as dry as my commercial wine consumption love is. Some exhibit some really good flavors for being young (less than a year), however I really desire my bold reds to be dryer than any kit thus far. Anyone have any thoughts? Thx

Give them some more time. I'm in your boat as well, just started making wine two years ago, my first red kit wasn't until Spring 2015. The older they get the less the fruity sweetness is apparent. Bet you'll like them a lot more at 24 to 36 months, especially the heavier ones. I've noticed my lighter bodied Valpolicella and Sangiovese kits seem dryer now that they have eclipsed the one year mark, so I think the lighter reds dry up a bit quicker. My Forza that is 16 months old is still a high alcohol fruit bomb in my opinion.

 

[Dougald]

There seems some confusion in terminology.

Dryness normally refers to the sugar content. If all the sugar has been fermented out, then a wine is said to be dry. But, many folks refer to a wine with a fruit taste as sweet.

Commercial Italian red wines have often (but not always) been made to have a fruit forward taste while the French commercial wines often acieve a zen character where all fruit has disappeared and only the mineral terroir shows through. We each have our own bias and preference in a big red.

As for kit wines, age certainly helps mute the fruit taste and this can mean more than 2 years in a bottle to completely harmonize the elements of the wine. In fact, for the best kits, 2 years may well be a minimum and maybe 3 or more years are needed to bring out teh best that the wine has to offer.

Personally, I prefer the Italian approach to the French and really enjoy a well made balanced red with some fruit remaining in the taste. However if someone wants to share a bottle from a classed growth of the Medoc ...

Regards ... Doug

Doug Matheson
Manotick ON

 

[ceeaton]

There seems some confusion in terminology.

Dryness normally refers to the sugar content. If all the sugar has been fermented out, then a wine is said to be dry. But, many folks refer to a wine with a fruit taste as sweet.

Commercial Italian red wines have often (but not always) been made to have a fruit forward taste while the French commercial wines often acieve a zen character where all fruit has disappeared and only the mineral terroir shows through. We each have our own bias and preference in a big red.

As for kit wines, age certainly helps mute the fruit taste and this can mean more than 2 years in a bottle to completely harmonize the elements of the wine. In fact, for the best kits, 2 years may well be a minimum and maybe 3 or more years are needed to bring out teh best that the wine has to offer.

Personally, I prefer the Italian approach to the French and really enjoy a well made balanced red with some fruit remaining in the taste. However if someone wants to share a bottle from a classed growth of the Medoc ...

Regards ... Doug

Doug Matheson
Manotick ON

Doug,

I probably should have put the word "perceived" before dryness. I think in a young wine the exuberant fruitiness can be perceived as residual sugar in the wine.

I have an example from last Winter to explain what I mean. I had a Pinot Grigio from Chilean juice buckets that I fermented in April 2015. I took the wine to a family get together (December 2015), and my Mom, who has been drinking wine for well over 60 years (if not more) thought I had finished the wine "off-dry". I tried to explain to her that it fermented to .990, which is dry in my book, but the wonderful fruitiness of the wine gave you the perception that their was more residual sugar than there actually was in the wine. Eventually that next Spring, as the wine aged in the bottle, the fruitiness died back a bit, and the wine tasted dryer than the Winter before. When she tried the wine again she didn't believe it was the same wine.

So my point in the earlier post should have been that the perceived dryness of a wine will change, usually towards a dryer sensation in the mouth and throat, with age.

I also personally prefer the Italian reds to most other. Valpolicellas and Sangioveses and other lighter reds are one of my favorite reds (the Italians also make a really good Pinot Grigio IMO).

 

[jgmann67]

Bottling this weekend. Set out 26 - 750ml bottles (brown, standard Bordeaux), and 8 - 375ml bottles. Will sanitize on Saturday and bottle after church.

 

[jgmann67]

Bottled as planned (and as I had proposed - 26 full bottles, 8 half bottles).



Capsules, labeled and resting on the rack.