French Bordeaux Style

[jgmann67]

Going through the WE lineup to cross reference them to the old kits offerings, I keep coming back to this one - the French Bordeaux Style. I don’t recall this one being available under the old formulation. So, I’m wondering: Did I miss something? Who has done it? What are your thoughts?

 

[wineh]

You'll notice it says it's from the Languedoc region, which is a completely different wine grape growing region from Bordeaux. Blends in the Languedoc are called Vins de Pays. Since winexpert either doesn't know this or is using the misnomer to get away with using the term Bordeaux, I'm on a personal boycott of that one.

 

[ErikM]

You'll notice it says it's from the Languedoc region, which is a completely different wine grape growing region from Bordeaux. Blends in the Languedoc are called Vins de Pays. Since winexpert either doesn't know this or is using the misnomer to get away with using the term Bordeaux, I'm on a personal boycott of that one.

That is why they call it Bordeaux STYLE.

 

[tttaff]

I started this one last year, it's almost 6 months old now. It comes with grape skins, so I left the juice on the skins for about 4 weeks, plus added some extra oak so it needs some time to mellow out a bit but it is tasting good so far.

 

[winemaker81]

@jgmann67, if you're interested in a Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot based red blend, this should be worth trying.

 

[MTJoeT]

You'll notice it says it's from the Languedoc region, which is a completely different wine grape growing region from Bordeaux. Blends in the Languedoc are called Vins de Pays. Since winexpert either doesn't know this or is using the misnomer to get away with using the term Bordeaux, I'm on a personal boycott of that one.

“Vin de pays” simply means “wine of the country”. That means all the lower quality fruit from that region was co-opped together hence why it is Bordeaux style; it contains all varieties of fruit from that region and not predominantly one strain but they will be Cab Sauv, Merlot, Cab Franc, Malbec and Petit Verdot strong as those are the main red grapes from Bordeaux.

 

[Mario Dinis]

Has anyone ever blended Petite Sirah with Cabernet Franc?

 

[Ajmassa]

Has anyone ever blended Petite Sirah with Cabernet Franc?

probably many. probably a lot of commercial franc has some too i bet. since PS is a popular small percentage blender to boost a wine. I kinda view petite sirah and petite verdot as interchangeable for boosting purposes.

i just did a franc bucket with petite sirah grapes last year. still in bulk

 

[sour_grapes]

What AJ said. However, it won't be "Bordeaux Style" any longer!

 

[Mario Dinis]

probably many. probably a lot of commercial franc has some too i bet. since PS is a popular small percentage blender to boost a wine. I kinda view petite sirah and petite verdot as interchangeable for boosting purposes.

i just did a franc bucket with petite sirah grapes last year. still in bulk

More PS or more CF? Any idea?

 

[Ajmassa]

More PS or more CF? Any idea?

who knows? that’s a question only the winemaker can answer!
when used as a booster it’s just a small percentage. just enough to add some umph. they usually do like 5% PS/PV or something. but only one way to know for sure— bench trials with diff proportions to find out what ya prefer.

blending trials can be simple or overwhelming. usually I got more variables to account for then just what tastes best. like amount of wine or open carboys. Plus my tastebuds often lie to me and i’ll have different opinions from one night to the next. eventually just gotta say F it and make a decision for a main blend and then another of what’s left over. or some single varietal

 

[winemaker81]

More PS or more CF? Any idea?

I agree with @Ajmassa -- it's winemaker's taste AND blending trials can be difficult to judge.

Look at the back label of red Bordeaux and other red blends. In some cases there will be as little as 3% of one varietal. The winemaker believes that addition makes the wine better. Maybe it does, but I'm not going to claim my palate is good enough to detect the difference between 3% and 5%. Or maybe the winemaker is fooling him or herself. Or blowing smoke. I have no idea either way.

Also keep in mind that these folks have hundreds, maybe thousands of 60 gallon barrels to play with. We amateurs do not have that luxury, and the amount of wine we make is a strict limit on both blending and taste testing.

Go with a simple trial, 5 wines:
100% PS
75% PS / 25% CF
50% PS / 50% CF
25% PS / 75% CF
100% CF

You want at least one other person to taste with you, if you can. Rank the wines 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Make the blend that is the most favorite, and use the remainder as the 2nd blend. Keep in mind that you may choose to go with no blending.

Keep in mind that there are probably going to be no losers -- all 5 will be good. Just a question of what you like he best.

If you want to get creative, do a double-blind tasting -- you randomly label the wines 1 to 5, secretly recording which is which. Then someone else randomly re-labels them A to E, recording which is which. Now no one knows which wine is which.

Taste as above, ranking the wines from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Reveal the notes to determine which is which.

 

[Mario Dinis]

who knows? that’s a question only the winemaker can answer!
when used as a booster it’s just a small percentage. just enough to add some umph. they usually do like 5% PS/PV or something. but only one way to know for sure— bench trials with diff proportions to find out what ya prefer.

blending trials can be simple or overwhelming. usually I got more variables to account for then just what tastes best. like amount of wine or open carboys. Plus my tastebuds often lie to me and i’ll have different opinions from one night to the next. eventually just gotta say F it and make a decision for a main blend and then another of what’s left over. or some single varietal

Thanks. Planning on doing that with the leftover of the blend I intend to make.

 

[Mario Dinis]

I agree with @Ajmassa -- it's winemaker's taste AND blending trials can be difficult to judge.

Look at the back label of red Bordeaux and other red blends. In some cases there will be as little as 3% of one varietal. The winemaker believes that addition makes the wine better. Maybe it does, but I'm not going to claim my palate is good enough to detect the difference between 3% and 5%. Or maybe the winemaker is fooling him or herself. Or blowing smoke. I have no idea either way.

Also keep in mind that these folks have hundreds, maybe thousands of 60 gallon barrels to play with. We amateurs do not have that luxury, and the amount of wine we make is a strict limit on both blending and taste testing.

Go with a simple trial, 5 wines:
100% PS
75% PS / 25% CF
50% PS / 50% CF
25% PS / 75% CF
100% CF

You want at least one other person to taste with you, if you can. Rank the wines 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Make the blend that is the most favorite, and use the remainder as the 2nd blend. Keep in mind that you may choose to go with no blending.

Keep in mind that there are probably going to be no losers -- all 5 will be good. Just a question of what you like he best.

If you want to get creative, do a double-blind tasting -- you randomly label the wines 1 to 5, secretly recording which is which. Then someone else randomly re-labels them A to E, recording which is which. Now no one knows which wine is which.

Taste as above, ranking the wines from 1 (favorite) to 5 (least favorite). Reveal the notes to determine which is which.

Thank you. I'll definatly do that. Thanks for the ratios, that's what I was basically looking for and is CF and PS was a good blend.

 

[winemaker81]

Thank you. I'll definatly do that. Thanks for the ratios, that's what I was basically looking for and is CF and PS was a good blend.

Glad to help! I figured you needed a starting point, which is often the hardest part to figure.

Bottle at least 1 gallon of each wine as a varietal. A year later, compare your blend(s) to the varietals to see what you like. Treat everything as a learning experience and enjoy the ride.

I've done blending in the past, but for 2020 I went with a field blend -- I chose grapes in a ratio that sounded good and went with it. So far, I'm happy with my results.

 

[Mario Dinis]

Glad to help! I figured you needed a starting point, which is often the hardest part to figure.

Bottle at least 1 gallon of each wine as a varietal. A year later, compare your blend(s) to the varietals to see what you like. Treat everything as a learning experience and enjoy the ride.

I've done blending in the past, but for 2020 I went with a field blend -- I chose grapes in a ratio that sounded good and went with it. So far, I'm happy with my results.

Unfortunatly I can't do grapes, only juice.

 

[winemaker81]

Unfortunatly I can't do grapes, only juice.

This is not a problem -- you can have a lot of fun with experimentation, either way.

 

[Mario Dinis]

This is not a problem -- you can have a lot of fun with experimentation, either way.

Oh I do.

 

[Ajmassa]

hey @Mario Dinis - how’s that juice bucket PS btw? I’m curious about that one. Is it from last fall? Ive noticed for the most part the color doesn’t vary a drastic amount in buckets. The cabs/zins/malbecs etc is always prettt darn good color. Even historically lighter grapes like sangio wont be drastically lighter in juice pails.

But I never did a PS or PV bucket. curious if it’s super dark & bold like those grapes would be- or since it’s a pre-balanced bucket is the stronger color less drastic? (basing this question off the fact they blend in other varietals into the juice for optimal brix & acid & color)

 

[Mario Dinis]

hey @Mario Dinis - how’s that juice bucket PS btw? I’m curious about that one. Is it from last fall? Ive noticed for the most part the color doesn’t vary a drastic amount in buckets. The cabs/zins/malbecs etc is always prettt darn good color. Even historically lighter grapes like sangio wont be drastically lighter in juice pails.

But I never did a PS or PV bucket. curious if it’s super dark & bold like those grapes would be- or since it’s a pre-balanced bucket is the stronger color less drastic? (basing this question off the fact they blend in other varietals into the juice for optimal brix & acid & color)

Hi AJ, that's actually Pinot Noir and it came out pretty good after that rotten egg smell scare, LOL. I followed your advice to splash rack it a few times and it worked. No more odors and tastes pretty good. As for color, it's not too dark and yes, it's from last Fall. I just ordered a bucket of Chilean Syrah to play with this Spring and going to order from them in the Fall CS/M/CF and PS to make Port and a few blends.