Other FWK Bordeaux - High PH - Need Input from Experienced Wine Makers

[sluff]

I started a FWK Bordeaux In Jan 2022. I have made dozens of wine kits over the last 5 years and I carefully followed the FWK instructions - I did add 1/8 tsp PotMet after initial fermentation was finished. Initial SG was 1.104 ended at .994. I did not test the PH when I started the kit (do you normally do this for wine kits...?). I have been bulk aging this wine since Feb 2022. I racked it a couple of days ago and tested the PH and SO2 and was surprised to find the PH at 3.67 and SO2 at 8 PPM (according to the SO2 table that I have the SO2 should be about 38 PPM). I then added 10 ml of a 10% sulfite solution and tested it a couple of days later. It is now still a PH of 3.67 and SO2 of 12 PPM (I ran the tests twice to be sure). According to the WineMaker.Mag calculator 10ml of a 10% sulfite solution should have brought it up to 35 PPM SO2. I am not sure what to do next - add tartaric acid - or add more 10% sulfite solution. It tastes okay.... I am afraid if I bottle it now it will spoil... Or blend it (I do have another FWK Bordeaux kit (and 5 other FWK kits) in process as well). Any thoughts? Please help... Thanks!!!!

 

[sour_grapes]

I may be missing something -- I regard a pH of 3.67 as dead-nuts perfect. Why would you want anything different?

 

[sluff]

Thanks for your reply! My reds have always ended up in the pH range of 3.3 - 3.4. As I understand it - 3.67 is okay - but on the higher end. So I won't worry about tinkering with the pH level. I do need to increase the free S02 to provide the right protection for that pH level -- and I am concerned about overshooting it. I use the winemaker magazine calculator and the amount of 10% S02 it recommended didn't come close to bringing me up to the right level. My potassium metabisulfite is not expired... I would appreciate your thoughts on that... Thanks again!!

 

[Guasto-IS]

Some of the best red blends I made, using premium grape, were in the pH 3.5-3.7 range. Like Sour-grapes said, I think your perfect and on the money.

 

[salcoco]

I would suggest double checking your method of sso2 measurement

 

[sluff]

I would suggest double checking your method of sso2 measurement

Thanks for your reply! I use a Vinmetrica SC100. With my SC100 the free SO2 measurements have always tracked with about what I expected. I looked back at my notes on this wine and realized that I only added 1/8 tsp of Pot Met vs. the 1/4 tsp called for in the FWK instructions (if the wine is to be bulk aged) That would explain why it tested lower than I expected in the first place. I am confused as to why after adding 10 ml of a 10% sulfite solution, it would only bring up the free SO2 by 4 PPM. I need to get this up to close to 40 PPM and don't want overshoot the free SO2 and mess up this batch of wine. Any thoughts? Thanks again!

 

[sluff]

I would suggest double checking your method of sso2 measurement

 

[sluff]

Some of the best red blends I made, using premium grape, were in the pH 3.5-3.7 range. Like Sour-grapes said, I think your perfect and on the money.

Good to hear this. Thank you!

 

[cmason1957]

I've had some really good reds that were in the 3.7-4.0 Ph range.

I haven't ever used the 10% sulfite solution method, but 10 ml just doesn't sound like a lot. Not saying it's wrong, but it doesn't seem like much.

I always go with the 1/4 tsp per 5-6 gallons every 3 to 4 months, don't measure and worry about Free SO2 (which maybe I should). Also, even if you were to overshoot your SO2 addition by 5 or 10 times, it would probably still be below the threshold of what would be considered messing up the batch.

 

[sluff]

Very helpful! Thanks!

 

[SouthernVino]

Time will dissipate the SO2. I too just drop 1/4 tsp of meta per 5-6 gal every three/four months while in bulk aging. Never had a problem. Just drank a bottle that was 5 years old using this method and it still tasted great.

 

[Rocky]

I may be missing something -- I regard a pH of 3.67 as dead-nuts perfect. Why would you want anything different?

"dead-nuts perfect?" Now there is an oxymoron if I have ever read one.

 

[cmason1957]

"dead-nuts perfect?" Now there is an oxymoron if I have ever read one.

Maybe Not an oxymoron, more like an unnecessary word??

Since Dead-Nuts means not just good enough, but absolutely perfect. But I am not one to quibble over idioms.

 

[sluff]

Thanks everyone for the confirmation on pH. I think my 10% sulfite solution may not be mixed correctly... From now on I will only use KMS. I added 1/8 tsp and will test it tomorrow.

 

[Swedeman]

I haven't ever used the 10% sulfite solution method, but 10 ml just doesn't sound like a lot. Not saying it's wrong, but it doesn't seem like much.

Not that off actually, 1/4 tsk is roughly 1,4 gram while 10 ml of a 10% is 1 gram.

I think my 10% sulfite solution may not be mixed correctly.

Agreed.

 

[NorCal]

3.7-4.0 red wines are the norm for me. At first I would add and add tartaric until I forced the must into pH submission or dump sulfites into the finished wine just to hit the curve on the chart. After talking with other seasoned local home and commercial winemakers on how they approach the high brix (due to harvest decisions based on ripeness) and high pH grapes, I have changed my view on how much to adjust and how much sulfites to add for our local grapes.

My guiding principles for red have been to limit my acid adjustments to .1-.2 pH up-front and shoot for a 3.6X pH wine. I do not fret if the pH is <3.9 finished, as long as it tastes good to me. I do not adjust pH post ferment to hit a pH number. I limit my SO2 additions to 50 ppm, even if the chart is calling for more. My target consumption is < 5 years, which is what my corks are rated for. With a bottle count of over 10K, I cannot say I know of a single bottle that has aged out within that 5 year target life span.

 

[mbleill]

I have learned that it is important to gently stir the wine after adding a KSO2 solution before retesting. This is important when using a 10% KSO2 mixed with water. The water with a specific gravity of ~ 1.0 will tend to sink to the bottom of the container unless given the time to blend with the total volume. Retesting using wine from the top of the container will likely not be accurate until the wine has time to blend with the over all KSO2 added.

 

[sluff]

3.7-4.0 red wines are the norm for me. At first I would add and add tartaric until I forced the must into pH submission or dump sulfites into the finished wine just to hit the curve on the chart. After talking with other seasoned local home and commercial winemakers on how they approach the high brix (due to harvest decisions based on ripeness) and high pH grapes, I have changed my view on how much to adjust and how much sulfites to add for our local grapes.

My guiding principles for red have been to limit my acid adjustments to .1-.2 pH up-front and shoot for a 3.6X pH wine. I do not fret if the pH is <3.9 finished, as long as it tastes good to me. I do not adjust pH post ferment to hit a pH number. I limit my SO2 additions to 50 ppm, even if the chart is calling for more. My target consumption is < 5 years, which is what my corks are rated for. With a bottle count of over 10K, I cannot say I know of a single bottle that has aged out within that 5 year target life span.

View attachment 96844

Good info! I have never tested pH when starting fermentation. How much does the pH typically change from fermentation to stabilization to bulk aging?

 

[sluff]

I have learned that it is important to gently stir the wine after adding a KSO2 solution before retesting. This is important when using a 10% KSO2 mixed with water. The water with a specific gravity of ~ 1.0 will tend to sink to the bottom of the container unless given the time to blend with the total volume. Retesting using wine from the top of the container will likely not be accurate until the wine has time to blend with the over all KSO2 added.

Agree - I usually stir it in and wait 24 hours before a retest.

 

[winemaker81]

I am not sure what to do next - add tartaric acid - or add more 10% sulfite solution. It tastes okay.... I am afraid if I bottle it now it will spoil... Or blend it (I do have another FWK Bordeaux kit (and 5 other FWK kits) in process as well). Any thoughts? Please help... Thanks!!!!

What does the wine taste like?

Do not focus on the numbers. Wine is a tremendously complex solution and individuals numbers only tell part of the story. Consider the parable of the blind men and the elephant -- the numbers are blind men.

There is no such thing as an ideal pH. Or TA, or any other measurement. It's all relative. Winemaking is an art, not a science. Science helps, but it only goes so far. If science was the answer, we'd all be making 100 point wines every time, right?

Put your test equipment away and taste the wine. Trust your senses. YOU will be drinking the wine, not the pH meter ......