WineXpert Getting a full 6 gallons

[BeeGee]

So here's a question I have that I haven't seen posted as yet...with the WineXpert full batch kits, you're supposed to add water to the juice until you get 6 gallons, and this is supposed to create 6 gallons of wine. HOWEVER, when you get to the racking stage, you most CERTAINLY don't want to siphon any sediment, so you stop racking at a certain point. So far, this has been resulting in me not getting a full 6 gallons and I'm having to top off the carboy, but I don't like doing that, especially when I'm supposed to be getting 6 gallons of wine out of this. Anybody else run into this? Any helpful hints as to how you can retain ALL your wine without pulling sediment? Cheesecloth filtering, perhaps? (This was an idea I was thinking about.)

 

[Brian55]

So here's a question I have that I haven't seen posted as yet...with the WineXpert full batch kits, you're supposed to add water to the juice until you get 6 gallons, and this is supposed to create 6 gallons of wine. HOWEVER, when you get to the racking stage, you most CERTAINLY don't want to siphon any sediment, so you stop racking at a certain point. So far, this has been resulting in me not getting a full 6 gallons and I'm having to top off the carboy, but I don't like doing that, especially when I'm supposed to be getting 6 gallons of wine out of this. Anybody else run into this? Any helpful hints as to how you can retain ALL your wine without pulling sediment? Cheesecloth filtering, perhaps? (This was an idea I was thinking about.)

When racking, leave the sludge behind and top off with a similar wine.

 

[Bossbaby]

I usually make about 5.5 gal when doing a 6 gal kit that way you fill a 5 gal carboy and have a little top up wine. The wine is far more flavorful if you make them less than what the are intended for as well.

 

[BeeGee]

When racking, leave the sludge behind and top off with a similar wine.

Right, that's what I've been doing. But I'm supposed to be getting 6 gallons of wine from the kit, and I'm wondering if anyone's discovered a way to get the full 6 gallons without pulling in the sludge.

 

[CDrew]

Losses with racking are part of the wine game at every level. Accept, adapt, overcome in whatever way you want. If I were you, I'd start at 6, rack to 5 and be happy. Racking losses are normal. It bothered me only the first year. I've adapted by making more wine than I need. I always have something to top with. Let the sludge go. Really, it's ok and normal. Some want to put in the fridge, pour off clear wine, but it's a lot of work for minimal benefit.

 

[bobofthenorth]

As others have already pointed out its a trade off - less wine, better quality. Making multiple copies of the same kit simultaneously lets you use the same wine for top off but you still have to accept that you are going to "lose" some at each racking. I pour the sludge into a clear gallon jug to settle. Then I decant the (sort of clear) wine off the top of the jug and add it to my cooking wine bottle. It lives under the counter in the kitchen so its easily accessible for heavy beef gravies and pretty much any chicken dish.

 

[Khristyjeff]

Right, that's what I've been doing. But I'm supposed to be getting 6 gallons of wine from the kit, and I'm wondering if anyone's discovered a way to get the full 6 gallons without pulling in the sludge.

Like @CDrew said, there are quite a few on here who rack the clean wine, pour off the rest into a jug or bottle, refrigerate until the lees settle, then add the recovered wine back or drink it or whatever. My sense is these people get satisfaction from recovering the wine they paid for, and you might be this type of person. If so, go for it!
On a side note, what bugs me about the WineXpert kits are the oak "slivers" that clog my syphon.

 

[sour_grapes]

But I'm supposed to be getting 6 gallons of wine from the kit,

Who supposes that?

 

[Monty Knapp]

You really can't get 6 full gallons from a 6 gallon kit - unless you top it off with a similar wine.
That's the only way I've ever gotten 30 bottles (6 gallons).
But I quit "topping off". One time I needed 3 bottles to "top off" and decided that if I were making a homemade wine, I didn't want 10% to be "store bought" wine.
So, now I don't top off at all. I add glass marbles to bring the level up into the carboy neck.
I usually get 27 or 28 bottles. Once or twice, I only got 25 bottles.
You might add 1 or 2 quarts more water at the beginning to allow for loses, but that will reduce body, ABV and acid, but even then you may only get 28 or 29 bottles.

 

[winemaker81]

this is supposed to create 6 gallons of wine

This impression is incorrect. The initial volume is 23 liters, but (as noted) normal "loss" to sediment and racking reduce that. With careful racking you should be able to get 27.5 to 28 bottles from the batch.

I have a LOT of bottles & drilled stoppers of various sizes and have produced a sea of airlocks ensuring all containers were topped up. Starting with a recent FWK Barbera, I went in the other direction. I topped with a total of 1.5 bottles of commercial Montepulciano (over 2 rackings) so that I have a full 19 liter carboy and a full 4 liter jug, in bulk aging. I have 2 containers to worry about, 2 airlocks to watch, and the reduced hassle is certainly worth it. [I'm probably going to buy a 23 liter carboy just for kits, to cut the # containers to 1.]

In the past I was rabid about "purity" of wine, but in hindsight I realize how much unnecessary work I made for myself. Hard work pays off in the future -- laziness pays off now.

 

[szap]

It is even more of an issue with eclipse kits where you have the oak cubes to ad late in the process. Have to leave additional head space for that

 

[ratflinger]

Like @CDrew said, there are quite a few on here who rack the clean wine, pour off the rest into a jug or bottle, refrigerate until the lees settle, then add the recovered wine back or drink it or whatever. My sense is these people get satisfaction from recovering the wine they paid for, and you might be this type of person. If so, go for it!
On a side note, what bugs me about the WineXpert kits are the oak "slivers" that clog my syphon.

Try a brew bag to contain the slivers:
https://smile.amazon.com/Hops-Grain...ld=1&keywords=brew+bag&qid=1633665783&sr=8-12

 

[ratflinger]

It is even more of an issue with eclipse kits where you have the oak cubes to ad late in the process. Have to leave additional head space for that

Might try this in your carboy, keeps the cubes from trying to pile up at the top:

https://www.nextleveloak.com/

 

[winemaker81]

Might try this in your carboy, keeps the cubes from trying to pile up at the top:
https://www.nextleveloak.com/

I'm using this product in 3 carboys now -- the convenience and ease of use beats all other products.

 

[Old Corker]

What I've been doing recently is ordering the kits two at a time. I ferment them together in a 20G brute and then EM them in two 6.5G big mouth bubblers. Once I'm ready to rack off the skins I use a 5G carboy and a 6.5G carboy so I'm conceding half a gallon from 12G of must. I do top up if necessary but it's pretty minimal. I lose a little more at the next racking and what I did this last time (FWK Cab) was to keep the 5G carboy pure and topped up the 6.5 with some merlot that is bottle aging now. My goal is to keep the two separated from here on so I can compare them later. I've tried the pour the sludge in a bottle and see what I can recover method but usually get the stank eye from my wife for having science experiments in the wine cooler.

 

[Old Corker]

Try a brew bag to contain the slivers:
https://smile.amazon.com/Hops-Grain...ld=1&keywords=brew+bag&qid=1633665783&sr=8-12

I've been putting the oak chips in the bag with the skins for my last couple of batches but I have a concern about it. As I understand it, the purpose of the chips is to add some sacrificial tannins during fermentation. My worry with throwing them in with the skins is that the fermenting solution doesn't have good access to those tannins when it needs them most. Eventually everything gets well consolidated but I don't know about early on. I may be over thinking it.

 

[winemaker81]

I've been putting the oak chips in the bag with the skins for my last couple of batches but I have a concern about it. As I understand it, the purpose of the chips is to add some sacrificial tannins during fermentation. My worry with throwing them in with the skins is that the fermenting solution doesn't have good access to those tannins when it needs them most. Eventually everything gets well consolidated but I don't know about early on. I may be over thinking it.

Unless the chips are tightly packed, I suspect it's not really a problem.

I used shredded oak for fermentation oak to get the most surface area during the short fermentation period. I made a jig using PVC pipe and a drill, which I wrap in a fine straining bag before inserting the racking cane. This eliminates the clogged cane problem.

During aging I have used chips, but switched to cubes as that also eliminates the clogged cane.

 

[Old Corker]

Unless the chips are tightly packed, I suspect it's not really a problem.

I used shredded oak for fermentation oak to get the most surface area during the short fermentation period. I made a jig using PVC pipe and a drill, which I wrap in a fine straining bag before inserting the racking cane. This eliminates the clogged cane problem.

During aging I have used chips, but switched to cubes as that also eliminates the clogged cane.

It worked fine with the FWK batch because the skins are dry and the dry wood chips mixed readily with them. I also did it with an RJS kit with their wet skins pack so mixing was difficult. The truth is I didn't make much of an effort to consolidate the chips into the wet solution. Just dumped them in the bag and tried to mix by stirring it up in the must. After soaking all night the chips still were forming a separate clump inside the bag. Once the fermentation was in full steam and the bag was full of C02 it was better. I'm just wondering if the benefit of the chips was diminished because it was clumped up as the fermentation started. As I said, may be overthinking.

 

[ratflinger]

Old Corker - I use 2 bags, one for the skins and a separate one for the oak. This release of tannins is somewhat sacrificial so I also use the Next Level Oak (thread 13) in my secondaries. I know those folks are working on a setup for Better Bottles & Speidels, for your bulk aging.

 

[Old Corker]

Old Corker - I use 2 bags, one for the skins and a separate one for the oak. This release of tannins is somewhat sacrificial so I also use the Next Level Oak (thread 13) in my secondaries. I know those folks are working on a setup for Better Bottles & Speidels, for your bulk aging.

@ratflinger - I think I’ll try the two bags the next time. Do you soak the oak chips in water before tossing?
I usually just use the oak cubes that come with the kit during aging but may go with some of the different oaking options in the future.