Good article about alcohol consumption and dementia

[wood1954]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800994
to sum up moderate drinking reduced dementia. Heavy drinking is 10 or more ounces of . The trouble with these reports or studies is the self reporting they use. How accurate is that across over three million people? I can see non drinkers vs drinkers but how you accurately measure alcohol intake with drinkers? I don’t measure my intake, some days I have more or less, not demented yet, that I know of anyway.

 

[jswordy]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800994
to sum up moderate drinking reduced dementia. Heavy drinking is 10 or more ounces of . The trouble with these reports or studies is the self reporting they use. How accurate is that across over three million people? I can see non drinkers vs drinkers but how you accurately measure alcohol intake with drinkers? I don’t measure my intake, some days I have more or less, not demented yet, that I know of anyway.

All I can say is that the medical research community is turning against alcohol stridently and is increasingly recommending zero consumption, offering research that says that even mild consumption markedly increases the risks of cancers and organ damage, particularly damage to the heart and liver. All the "red wine is good for you in moderation" studies of the past are being dismantled by critics. Researchers are increasingly calling alcohol the hidden factor in the rising number of cancers in the United States.

Pass the bottle, please...

 

[cmason1957]

All I can say is that the medical research community is turning against alcohol stridently and is increasingly recommending zero consumption, offering research that says that even mild consumption markedly increases the risks of cancers and organ damage, particularly damage to the heart and liver. All the "red wine is good for you in moderation" studies of the past are being dismantled by critics. Researchers are increasingly calling alcohol the hidden factor in the rising number of cancers in the United States.

Pass the bottle, please...

Anytime a study comes out that might say something I disagree with, I avoid reading it. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

 

[jswordy]

Anytime a study comes out that might say something I disagree with, I avoid reading it. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

Right. It just makes me nervous, and when I get nervous, I drink more.

 

[sour_grapes]

Anytime a study comes out that might say something I disagree with, I avoid reading it. I don't need that kind of negativity in my life.

Salud!

 

[BigDaveK]

Wine, beer, booze are different. Moderate wine drinking has been shown to have health benefits. As far as I'm concerned, that's what I need to know, done deal, case closed. If there's contrary information? La la la, I can't hear you, la la la!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36615832/

 

[BernardSmith]

https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamanetworkopen/fullarticle/2800994
to sum up moderate drinking reduced dementia. Heavy drinking is 10 or more ounces of . The trouble with these reports or studies is the self reporting they use. How accurate is that across over three million people? I can see non drinkers vs drinkers but how you accurately measure alcohol intake with drinkers? I don’t measure my intake, some days I have more or less, not demented yet, that I know of anyway.

One way to more "accurately" measure intake using self reportage is to have subjects record everything they eat or drink with the "approximate" measures ... If Joe records for a week everything Joe consumes - and that record includes, say, "wine by the 4 or 6 oz glass" and Joe records two 6 oz glasses every day for a week , then 12 * 7 = 84 oz (and if we assume wine is +/- 12% ABV) , then the researcher has a rough and ready volume of ethanol that I have consumed over the period of research. (I have taken part research projects that were looking at the nutritional value of the food a pool of subjects were eating and that research enabled the researchers to look at both those who bought ready made meals and those who cooked from scratch ( we included ingredients they had listed or we modified the list). Quite doable... but you commit yourself for a specific period of time...

 

[Terryfirma]

All I can say is that the medical research community is turning against alcohol stridently and is increasingly recommending zero consumption, offering research that says that even mild consumption markedly increases the risks of cancers and organ damage, particularly damage to the heart and liver. All the "red wine is good for you in moderation" studies of the past are being dismantled by critics. Researchers are increasingly calling alcohol the hidden factor in the rising number of cancers in the United States.

Pass the bottle, please...

 

[jswordy]

Wine, beer, booze are different. Moderate wine drinking has been shown to have health benefits. As far as I'm concerned, that's what I need to know, done deal, case closed. If there's contrary information? La la la, I can't hear you, la la la!

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/36615832/

Those are exactly the studies coming under increased scrutiny now and being debunked for inherent biases. Shrug. A shiraz tonight, I think...

 

[jswordy]

One way to more "accurately" measure intake using self reportage is to have subjects record everything they eat or drink with the "approximate" measures ... If Joe records for a week everything Joe consumes - and that record includes, say, "wine by the 4 or 6 oz glass" and Joe records two 6 oz glasses every day for a week , then 12 * 7 = 84 oz (and if we assume wine is +/- 12% ABV) , then the researcher has a rough and ready volume of ethanol that I have consumed over the period of research. (I have taken part research projects that were looking at the nutritional value of the food a pool of subjects were eating and that research enabled the researchers to look at both those who bought ready made meals and those who cooked from scratch ( we included ingredients they had listed or we modified the list). Quite doable... but you commit yourself for a specific period of time...

The problem is with self-reporting, period. Docs already know that people under-report their alcohol and drug consumption. The second problem with the "moderate wine is good for you" research is that it could be a matter of lifestyles associated with moderate wine intake that confer the benefits, and not the wine at all. All I can say is that researchers and physicians are taking a less tolerant attitude toward alcohol consumption. I just got a shipment from California, and on the box was printed a warning that includes that alcohol consumption can lead to cancer. I'm now pretty much decided on shiraz tonight...

 

[distancerunner]

The pilgrims were Puritans. Or what my children used to refer to as "fun suckers." That concept underlies most of our thinking, and some of our laws, even four hundred years later. How many western countries have banned booze like we did a hundred years ago?

People want to drink. Federal mandates won't stop it. The new method is to use scare tactics. Most studies are not rigorous enough, or lack sample size, to be of any significance.

Public Service Announcement:

If anyone on this board decides to quit drinking, I will be happy to take your single malts off your hands. I'll even pay for shipping.

 

[wood1954]

I’m pushing 70 this year , been drinking for 50 years, I imagine I’ll be fine for the next 20 years I might have left especially as I drink mostly red wine with added potassium which helps with blood pressure. It truly is a very healthy fun drink. It seems all the studies I’ve read say the limit should be two drinks which is not enough to even get a slight buzz, god forbid someone should drink enough to feel good. I wonder when Jesus made wine if he admonished everyone to only drink five ounces. He probably made wine that doesn’t give you a hangover.

 

[winemanden]

I’m pushing 70 this year , been drinking for 50 years, I imagine I’ll be fine for the next 20 years I might have left especially as I drink mostly red wine with added potassium which helps with blood pressure. It truly is a very healthy fun drink. It seems all the studies I’ve read say the limit should be two drinks which is not enough to even get a slight buzz, god forbid someone should drink enough to feel good. I wonder when Jesus made wine if he admonished everyone to only drink five ounces. He probably made wine that doesn’t give you a hangover.

I'm 90 next month. I've been drinking alcohol( beer ) since before I was legally allowed (18 in UK). I've been drinking country wine + some beer since I was 19. I've been making and drinking country wines since 1957/8. My blood pressure is a bit high, my cholesterol is a bit high. I'm still drinking wine, not so much beer because of toilet visits . I don't know for certain, maybe it's just good luck but, I think maybe it's all the tannins + SO2 I've drunk , in moderation. over the years that have preserved me.

 

[Shurt1073]

Public Service Announcement:

If anyone on this board decides to quit drinking, I will be happy to take your single malts off your hands. I'll even pay for shipping.

NOPE! Make them pay the shipping so they really learn their lesson for drinking wine!

On a serious note: Congrats to winemanden nearly 90 yrs on this earth. You have seen some every interesting periods of time in your life sir!

 

[Boatboy24]

Wait...what were we talking about? I can't remember.

 

[ChuckD]

Wait...what were we talking about? I can remember.

Something about wine being good for you I think

 

[BernardSmith]

The problem is with self-reporting, period. Docs already know that people under-report their alcohol and drug consumption. The second problem with the "moderate wine is good for you" research is that it could be a matter of lifestyles associated with moderate wine intake that confer the benefits, and not the wine at all. All I can say is that researchers and physicians are taking a less tolerant attitude toward alcohol consumption. I just got a shipment from California, and on the box was printed a warning that includes that alcohol consumption can lead to cancer. I'm now pretty much decided on shiraz tonight...

Interesting point, but good research protocol would /should account for lifestyles. And so, it IS possible that some /all research misses a key coefficient. Possible - but peer review, not so great among psychologists tends to be far better among sociologists and researchers of substance use (in my opinion). Researchers would need to demonstrate that they have looked at lifestyle (however they may have defined that) as a variable: drinkers who smoke, don't smoke; drinkers whose income is below, around and above defined poverty levels; drinkers who are employed vs unemployed; drinkers with identified chronic illnesses vs those with none; drinkers who have been diagnosed with named acute bouts of illnesses in the last 1 , 5 ,10 years, those with none etc. Only Youtube "researchers" who self publish can get away with drek protocols and from my own experience as a medical sociologist, the journals that publish material on alcohol consumption and health are likely to use papers submitted for publication by "researchers" (who would not get the time of day from their university IRBs, by the way) who have failed to control for "lifestyle", as coasters for their coffee mugs.

 

[Raptor99]

The pilgrims were Puritans. Or what my children used to refer to as "fun suckers." That concept underlies most of our thinking, and some of our laws, even four hundred years later. How many western countries have banned booze like we did a hundred years ago?

The Puritans are often caricatured. They were opposed to drunkenness, but they consumed plenty of alcohol:

The Puritans are not known as party animals, but they arrived in Boston in 1630 on a ship that carried plenty of beer—and 10,000 gallons of wine. Despite their well-deserved reputation as killjoys, the Puritans didn’t oppose drinking, they merely opposed drinking too much. “Drink is in itself a good Creature of God, and to be received with thankfulness,” wrote Increase Mather, the famed Puritan preacher, “but the abuse of drink is from Satan.”

Source: Uneasy About Alcohol - America and the Booze Question

I know someone who has read extensively in the writings of the Puritans. They were not at all the way they are commonly portrayed in the media. They did make their relationship with God a central part of their life, and they did oppose excess. But they also enjoyed life and drank beer, wine, or hard cider on a daily basis.

 

[Raptor99]

Here is a ditty from the colonists in the 1630's:

If barley be wanting to make into malt,
We must be content and think it no fault,
For we can make liquor to sweeten our lips,
Of pumpkins and parsnips and walnut-tree chips.

I recall someone on WMT talking about pumpkin wine not too long ago