Got off the Phone with the Fermaid people

[RhynoMakingWineO]

Great thread....thanks for the work to put the info together!!

 

[seth8530]

BTW, I did some additional reading on fermaidK and its relevence in making wine. When making mead, I beleive that it might be usefull to supply the initial nutrient package into the must of pure fermaidK up to the 1/3 sugar break. Afterwords, up the the 1/2 and 2/3 break switching to fermaid O might be a winner.

I say this because the legal allowable limit for fermaid K is between .25 and .30 grams per liter (http://www.newineclub.org/Yeast Nut Adds.pdf) . According to this, as earlier discussed in our thread



"YAN Contribution at 25g/hL (2lb/1000gal) = 25gN/L" (typo) mg

At an addition of .25 grams per liter of fermaidK per liter one would be contributing 25 ppm (mg/l) YAN. Which is really not all that much. So if working in mead land, one should use fermaidK to provide micro nutrients and vitamins for than just a DAP source.

So, if one is shooting for large YAN contributions one should use FermaidK in connection with fermaidO or perhaps good oll DAP in a pinch.

So, by mass in mg/l ( after doing a bit of math) and double checking against the last slide of the linked presentation (http://www.newineclub.org/Yeast Nut Adds.pdf)

One gets

mg/L YAN (PPM) =(.10*(mg/L) fermaidK +.04*(mg/L)*FermaidO+.2(mg/l) DAP).

So pretty much, this means insert the mg/L used of each of the substances to get the total YAN contributions.

So if we plug in the legal limit of 250 mg/L fermaid K we get ourselves a 25 mg/l allowable yan contribution from fermaid K. This is fine for working with grape wine, but not so much in mead. So now we have to choose to use DAP or Fermaid O.

So lets say we wanted to do 300 mg/L yan. Our fermaid K addition brings us down to 275 mg/l needed.

275 mg/l = .04*(mg/L)*FermaidO

275/.04= mg/l FermaidO

6875 mg/l fermaid O needed.

Divide this out by 1000 to get grams per liter needed and we get 6.875 grams per liter fermaid O needed in addition to the .25 grams per liter K needed.

The way I would do this would be to rehydrate the yeast in go ferm, and then and add all of the fermaid K and 1/3 of the fermaid O prior to fermentation and I would then add the rest of the fermaid O at the 1/3 sugar break as and up to the 1/2 or 2/3 sugar break depending on how concerned you are about under utilized nitrogen.

 

[Jimyson]

Seth,

So using the mead schedule, for a 5 gallon (18.92L) batch:

At Pitch- 4.73G of Ferm K and 43.33G of Ferm O
1/3 Break- 43.33G of Ferm O
1/2 Break- 43.33G of Ferm O

Correct?

If so, this is a lot of O!

 

[seth8530]

Well what are you making a batch of and what is your YAN goal?

 

[Jimyson]

My trial batch will be the Agave wine which will have an OG around 25-26 Brix. I will use 1116. Figured the 300 YAN give or take would be a good start.

 

[seth8530]

Your numbers from your calc look good as does your proposed schedule. However, with BRIX like that you might want to increase your target up to 350 mg/l YAN.

So,

YAN=350-25 ( from .25 g/l fermaid K) 4.75 grams

325=.04*(mg/L)*FermaidO

325/.04=8125 mg/l fermaidO=8.125 g/l which is the same as 154 grams of fermaid O

Then I would do as you did before with how you split the nutrients. Also, you might want to use a good rehydration nutrient such as go ferm protect. Overall, your plan seems good. If you can, keep the temperature low and you should have a good mead out of it if you let it age long enough.


BTW check this site out for nutrition guidelines.

http://www.nanaimowinemakers.org/Winemaking/General/AddingNitrogen.htm

 

[Jimyson]

Yeah, and I was debating whether or not i wanted to possibly decrease the OG. But, I will follow the same calculations and schedule.

Yes, I have GoFerm and plan to use it for rehydration.

Thanks!

 

[seth8530]

Excellent, what kind of timeline do you have in mind for the mead?

 

[Jimyson]

As long as primary fermentation looks good for the Agave, then I will look to do the mead. So maybe a week or two. The Malbec, hopefully sometime around the mead based on availability with a toddler and newborn. And man do I need to brew some beer too. YIKES!

 

[Jimyson]

Ok, so I ended up getting 6 gallons at 23 Brix. My yeast is rehydrating right now and I took a PH of my must. 4.2.

Any concern here? What can be done here or for next batch to bring it up to the 5.2 range?

 

[sour_grapes]

Ok, so I ended up getting 6 gallons at 23 Brix. My yeast is rehydrating right now and I took a PH of my must. 4.2.

Any concern here? What can be done here or for next batch to bring it up to the 5.2 range?

Bring what up to the 5.2 range? The pH? If that is what you meant, I believe you are way off base. I confess I know little about mead and pH, other than it will swing around a lot during fermentation because of lack of buffering agents, but I believe you want to start your fermentation with pH < 4.

 

[seth8530]

The starting PH is fine, but as our friend sour mentioned, the pH will swing around a lot. I do all of my pH adjustments post ferment to mead. However, I have heard of mead makers adding OH components to the mead to adjust a bit. ...

 

[Jimyson]

Sorry guys, yeah that is my beer logic where I mash at 5.2.

Disregard.

 

[Jimyson]

Everything went well tonight. I have a good feeling this will ferment dry for me.

 

[Jimyson]

Alright, no change in gravity after 36 hours.

6g of Agave must @ 23 Brix

Here is what i did:

Sanitized

Rehydrated 12.5g of GoFerm in 175ml of 110F spring water.

Rehydrated 10g of 1116 in 102F GoFerm slurry for 15m

Added 100ml of must to yeast slurry for 15m

Add 5.6g of Ferm-K and 61.5g of Ferm-O to must

Use stir stick and drill to mix and aerate. (I am out of pure O2)

Pitch

Bring to basement 65F-67F

After 11 hours, use stir stick to aerate and take sample. Was around 67F at the time. No change in gravity from OG

Ater 36 hours, take gravity reading. No change. Must is 65F.

Thoughts

-Bring it upstairs ~69F to start fermentation
-Aerate with O2
-Should I have pitched with 22g of yeast? For an ale at 23 Brix, MrMalty calculator says 4.4 packs of 5g dry yeast.

What do you think guys?

 

[seth8530]

Don't worry about it, it just needs some time. I see that you are a brewer, do you have the means for temperature control?

 

[Jimyson]

The one thing that I don't have unless I empty my keezer. That is my next purchase. The basement temps are pretty consistent around mid to high 60's which are fine for my ale productions.

I brought the bucket upstairs to get it moving. Should I send it back down?

 

[Jimyson]

I have never had to say this but I think I need to RDWHAHB.

 

[seth8530]

If I was you, once the fermentation kicks off I would store it in the keezer at around 11 C and let it ferment until dry. Meads turn out best when fermented cold because it better expresses the fruity and delicate aromatics of the honey or in your case agave. Mead can sometimes have a bit of a lag phase, so you are doing fine right now.

 

[Jimyson]

Very cool. Now, what to do with the 17 pounds of hops in the keezer!