I'm kind of surprised that a starter kit would come with a refractometer and not a hydrometer? Those grapes do look nice. Getting excited for grape season!
Have Grapes, Want to Make Wine
- Thread starter wertygrog
- Start date
Help Support Winemaking Talk - Winemaking Forum:
Hi everyone, update time!
Last week I measured the Brix and it was coming up on 20. This week, I noticed a bunch of bees and figeater beetles starting to devour the grapes, so I decided to harvest them yesterday with the help of my 4yo daughter. Might have been a little early, but will check the Brix of the must and add some sugar if needed. Maybe acid will be too high, but not currently planning to measure. There is 20lb of grapes harvested from this vine.
Today, daughter and I destemmed/crushed using the milk-crate trick. I have about 2gal of must, 1gal of which is in two separate 2gal fermenting buckets (sanitized). I have two 1gal carboys with airlocks, and suspecting I will have an awkward 1.3-1.5gal coming out of the fermenters so need to decide what to do about that. Would be a bummer to waste some of it...any advice?
One dissolved campden tablet added to each bucket, stirred, and they are resting tonight in the buckets under kitchen towels.
Tomorrow (after 24 hours), I will measure Brix, add sugar if needed to target ~12% ABV, and pitch the yeast. My kit came with a bunch of different additives, so looking for your advice on whether I should add Tannin, Acid, Pectic Enzyme, or Yeast nutrient? Guessing just Pectic if that? Anything else I'm forgetting?
Anywho, I think it's going well so far and has been a fun activity with the family.
Last week I measured the Brix and it was coming up on 20. This week, I noticed a bunch of bees and figeater beetles starting to devour the grapes, so I decided to harvest them yesterday with the help of my 4yo daughter. Might have been a little early, but will check the Brix of the must and add some sugar if needed. Maybe acid will be too high, but not currently planning to measure. There is 20lb of grapes harvested from this vine.
Today, daughter and I destemmed/crushed using the milk-crate trick. I have about 2gal of must, 1gal of which is in two separate 2gal fermenting buckets (sanitized). I have two 1gal carboys with airlocks, and suspecting I will have an awkward 1.3-1.5gal coming out of the fermenters so need to decide what to do about that. Would be a bummer to waste some of it...any advice?
One dissolved campden tablet added to each bucket, stirred, and they are resting tonight in the buckets under kitchen towels.
Tomorrow (after 24 hours), I will measure Brix, add sugar if needed to target ~12% ABV, and pitch the yeast. My kit came with a bunch of different additives, so looking for your advice on whether I should add Tannin, Acid, Pectic Enzyme, or Yeast nutrient? Guessing just Pectic if that? Anything else I'm forgetting?
Anywho, I think it's going well so far and has been a fun activity with the family.
A brix of 20 is workable, ,,, unless you need 14% alcohol.
Adding nutrition is common, I do not do it with grape but with a lot of fruits as rhubarb where the solids/ gravity could be 1.018. For even nutrient release I favor Fermaid and shy away from DAP,, only chemical.
Tannin addition is useful for the purpose of being an antioxidant and at the lower dosage levels to provide complexity/ long flavor notes. You have a red grape therefore it isn’t essential. Keeping it out allows more fruity notes so there is a question of style/ what do you like to drink. Next week I should be picking Briana/ green and adding crab apple tannin, since I like the flavor/ style.
Grapes are low pectin therefore pectase enzyme won’t have a lot of substrate to work on, and it will just fall out with all the other proteins in the grape. I don’t bother with it.
My standard is open bucket primary > 4 liter > 3.79 (gallon) > 3 liter with some that can be used for bench trials for back sweeten or glycerin or finishing tannin or adding other.
You do not have pH/ TA numbers yet so it is hard to say other changes.
Yeast for me is an evolution. Today my go to if I want to doctor TA is 71B, ,,, it is rated as removing 33% of the malic so I have put it in a lot of high solids/ low added water/ malic acid fruits as rhubarb. , ,,, you want a low TA since it gives a smoother beverage BUT you want a pH at 3.5 ish since it drives the effectiveness of campden tablets. Wine is a balancing act.
Great photos, any project which builds family tradition is great! Finally my missing ingredient in my first grape wine was patience, it will change a lot when three months old. And the ingredient I had too much of was sloppy technique with splashing/ oxygen at racking or pressing, ,,, once a few percent alcohol is in the beverage oxygen is the enemy.
Adding nutrition is common, I do not do it with grape but with a lot of fruits as rhubarb where the solids/ gravity could be 1.018. For even nutrient release I favor Fermaid and shy away from DAP,, only chemical.
Tannin addition is useful for the purpose of being an antioxidant and at the lower dosage levels to provide complexity/ long flavor notes. You have a red grape therefore it isn’t essential. Keeping it out allows more fruity notes so there is a question of style/ what do you like to drink. Next week I should be picking Briana/ green and adding crab apple tannin, since I like the flavor/ style.
Grapes are low pectin therefore pectase enzyme won’t have a lot of substrate to work on, and it will just fall out with all the other proteins in the grape. I don’t bother with it.
My standard is open bucket primary > 4 liter > 3.79 (gallon) > 3 liter with some that can be used for bench trials for back sweeten or glycerin or finishing tannin or adding other.
You do not have pH/ TA numbers yet so it is hard to say other changes.
Yeast for me is an evolution. Today my go to if I want to doctor TA is 71B, ,,, it is rated as removing 33% of the malic so I have put it in a lot of high solids/ low added water/ malic acid fruits as rhubarb. , ,,, you want a low TA since it gives a smoother beverage BUT you want a pH at 3.5 ish since it drives the effectiveness of campden tablets. Wine is a balancing act.
Great photos, any project which builds family tradition is great! Finally my missing ingredient in my first grape wine was patience, it will change a lot when three months old. And the ingredient I had too much of was sloppy technique with splashing/ oxygen at racking or pressing, ,,, once a few percent alcohol is in the beverage oxygen is the enemy.
Last edited:
I mostly agree with @Rice_Guy, but I'd add the nutrient. I had my first personal encounter with H2S last fall, most likely due to insufficient nutrient stressing the yeast -- this is to be avoided. Since you have the nutrient I vote to use it.
Oak added for fermentation helps with maintaining grape tannin and preserving color. I think powdered tannin works as well, so that's a reason to add it before fermentation.
AFAIK, most folks don't normally use pectic enzyme for grape wines. It's often necessary for fruit wines, as fruit pectin causes haze and the enzyme clears it. However, pectic enzyme is supposed to break down the fruit so you may get better results when pressing. Add it if you want.
Acid? Yeah, hold off on that. Once the wine is fermented out you all tell a lot by taste. If it's flabby tasting, you can add small amounts of acid along the way. If it's too acidic, your small batch can be cold stabilized by putting the jug in the fridge for a week or two, then racking before it warms up.
Excess wine? Containers, lots of small containers. I have a few 1.5 liter wine bottles, scores of 750 ml and 375 ml bottles, and a handful of smaller bottles down to 125 ml. Plus drilled stoppers to fit them and a lot of airlocks. Overage goes in small bottles.
If one of your secondary containers isn't quite full, open a compatible commercial wine, top up the container, then perform mouth-to-mouth on the commercial wine ....
Oak added for fermentation helps with maintaining grape tannin and preserving color. I think powdered tannin works as well, so that's a reason to add it before fermentation.
AFAIK, most folks don't normally use pectic enzyme for grape wines. It's often necessary for fruit wines, as fruit pectin causes haze and the enzyme clears it. However, pectic enzyme is supposed to break down the fruit so you may get better results when pressing. Add it if you want.
Acid? Yeah, hold off on that. Once the wine is fermented out you all tell a lot by taste. If it's flabby tasting, you can add small amounts of acid along the way. If it's too acidic, your small batch can be cold stabilized by putting the jug in the fridge for a week or two, then racking before it warms up.
Excess wine? Containers, lots of small containers. I have a few 1.5 liter wine bottles, scores of 750 ml and 375 ml bottles, and a handful of smaller bottles down to 125 ml. Plus drilled stoppers to fit them and a lot of airlocks. Overage goes in small bottles.
If one of your secondary containers isn't quite full, open a compatible commercial wine, top up the container, then perform mouth-to-mouth on the commercial wine ....
Alrighty, going on 4 days in primary now! The first two days were extremely active and foamy/bubbly, now the visible activity has slowed down quite a bit. There is still a cap appearing which I punch down twice a day.
The buckets are in my basement, and must temperature has been between 72-79F (I measure each time I punch the cap down). I tried to take a refractometer reading last night...normally the blue/white division was extremely crisp pre-fermentation but now it's really hazy/indistinct. I think I'm around 7 Brix which implies a .991 gravity given my starting Brix of 21, so not sure what's going on there...
Anyways, after 7 days have elapsed I plan to press the grapes using a mesh bag, then rack into carboy(s) under airlock. Any campden or other additives or procedures to do at this point?
Thanks!
Here's a pic just after punching the cap down 3 days after start of fermentation, should I be crushing these grapes to give the yeast more access?
The buckets are in my basement, and must temperature has been between 72-79F (I measure each time I punch the cap down). I tried to take a refractometer reading last night...normally the blue/white division was extremely crisp pre-fermentation but now it's really hazy/indistinct. I think I'm around 7 Brix which implies a .991 gravity given my starting Brix of 21, so not sure what's going on there...
Anyways, after 7 days have elapsed I plan to press the grapes using a mesh bag, then rack into carboy(s) under airlock. Any campden or other additives or procedures to do at this point?
Thanks!
Here's a pic just after punching the cap down 3 days after start of fermentation, should I be crushing these grapes to give the yeast more access?
According to a conversion table I checked, 7 brix is SG 1.028. Keep in mind that the reading of 7 is NOT accurate. Once fermentation starts, the refractometer reading is skewed by the increasing alcohol level. Alcohol is lighter than water, so the increasing amount reduces the measured brix level -- you actually have more sugar remaining than you realize.
The calendar is a tool to use after fermentation, not during. I recommend watching the SG and press based upon that. Yeast do not pay any attention to the calendar, they are simply eating-n-excreting.
That said, if due to time constraints (or any other reason) you need to press on a given day (say a Saturday), then do what you need to do.I would not worry about the whole berries -- they will be crushed during pressing, so you'll get the juice. I would check the SG before and after pressing. If you have a lot of whole berries there is a potential for unfermented juice to be released from the whole berries, increasing the SG. Knowing this doesn't affect the process, but it helps you if you check the SG 2 days later and it hasn't changed from pre-pressing, but you've seen activity.
TIP: wet a clean paper towel with K-meta water and wipe the inside of the fermenter down to the must level after punching down. This removes excess grape juice & pulp, which eliminates a place that bacteria can grow.
![[Upgraded] 9Pcs Tree Root Growing Box with Drain Holes, Half Transparent Plant Rooting Propagation Ball & Metal Core Twist Ties, for Fast Propagation Plants (Size M)](https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/514MWQxtWOL._SL500_.jpg)
grapes where the skins are popped will press easier, you may find some of what looks like intact berries if they are not squashed.
There is a technique using CO2 fermentation where the cellular mass inside the berry ferments by itself. Yeast do not need access to the pulp but the flavors inside need to be collected/ washed into the wine.
There is a technique using CO2 fermentation where the cellular mass inside the berry ferments by itself. Yeast do not need access to the pulp but the flavors inside need to be collected/ washed into the wine.
TIP: wet a clean paper towel with K-meta water and wipe the inside of the fermenter down to the must level after punching down. This removes excess grape juice & pulp, which eliminates a place that bacteria can grow.
[/QUOTE]
Especially acetobacter, I learned that working at a winery. I don't always do it every punch down but at least every last of the day.
[/QUOTE]
Especially acetobacter, I learned that working at a winery. I don't always do it every punch down but at least every last of the day.
Run it dry to 12%abv. Squeeze em good. Age till enjoyable. Then flex the fruits of your laborHi all, quick update!
Last Friday I picked up a hydrometer and measured the filtered wine at 1.01 gravity. At this time I put the grapes in a coarse mesh bag and squeezed it. Kept doing this until the wine was almost free of solids, then used my racking cane/tubing to siphon into a 1gal carboy and the rest into a mason jar which I topped up with commercial wine a few days later.
I had a lot of trouble with the siphoning...it kept clogging up! I had to restart the siphon a bunch of times, and it was generally a big hassle and mess. How do you all siphon without troubles?? Also what is the best way to pull a sample for the test jar without making a big mess?
Checked on it today and there is quite a bit of lees settled out. Still a very tiny amount of baby bubbles drifting up. Would now be a good time to rack it into my other 1gal carboy? Also I noticed the mason jar (which had quite a bit more headspace before I added commercial wine a few days later) is a much darker color. Is this oxidized/junk or can I still use it to top up the carboy after racking?
So far I've been pretty good about sanitizing and such, any other advice or am I on the right track so far?
Thanks so much for all your help!!
First pic is right after racking into secondary.
This pic is about a week later, see the lees at the bottom. Note this was taken in a dark cellar, the actual color is a nice red.
Last Friday I picked up a hydrometer and measured the filtered wine at 1.01 gravity. At this time I put the grapes in a coarse mesh bag and squeezed it. Kept doing this until the wine was almost free of solids, then used my racking cane/tubing to siphon into a 1gal carboy and the rest into a mason jar which I topped up with commercial wine a few days later.
I had a lot of trouble with the siphoning...it kept clogging up! I had to restart the siphon a bunch of times, and it was generally a big hassle and mess. How do you all siphon without troubles?? Also what is the best way to pull a sample for the test jar without making a big mess?
Checked on it today and there is quite a bit of lees settled out. Still a very tiny amount of baby bubbles drifting up. Would now be a good time to rack it into my other 1gal carboy? Also I noticed the mason jar (which had quite a bit more headspace before I added commercial wine a few days later) is a much darker color. Is this oxidized/junk or can I still use it to top up the carboy after racking?
So far I've been pretty good about sanitizing and such, any other advice or am I on the right track so far?
Thanks so much for all your help!!
First pic is right after racking into secondary.
This pic is about a week later, see the lees at the bottom. Note this was taken in a dark cellar, the actual color is a nice red.
First, use a fine mesh bag or several layers of cheese cloth. When pressing grapes I have a large bag that fits into a 7 gallon primary, and the pressings pass through that into the bucket so the bits that make it out of the press get caught.
For testing, use a large wine thief. I have a FermTech thief that is wide enough for a hydrometer, so I don't use a test just. Pull a sample, drop in the hydrometer, read it, and release the wine back into the fermenter. Sometimes it takes effort to keep the hydrometer from adhering to the side, but a bit of patience helps.
Bossbaby
Senior Member
You should plan on getting a couple of drilled bungs that fit over the mouth of a wine bottle, the next racking or so will leave you with less than a gallon so plan on maybe a half gallon carboy and a couple 750 ml bottles with an air lock for aging. look into an auto siphon for racking it may be a little easier to play with. Most the the folks on here use pumps to transfer there wine but they are working with hundreds of gallons in a year. good luck.
