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ness

Junior
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Hello,
I've been making wine off-and-on, mostly off, since the early 1970s, when I was around 13. It started when a buddy of mine and I read about World War II POWs putting raisins into water and letting it ferment. We tried it ... and instead opted to sneak a little of his dad's jug wine instead.

I kept at it, mostly doing concord wine from store-bought juice. My parents weren't exactly thrilled, but probably figured there wasn't much harm I could do. My aunt Mary got wind of this and thought it was pretty interesting that a kid would be into this kind of thing. So, she went out and found this book for me:

IMG_2382-L.jpg


I really love the inscription inside:
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I continued making some wine: concord, elderberry, etc. Some friends and I took the plunge into beer brewing in the late 1980s and 1990s. But, kids came along and we gave it up. I made a few wines over the years, but started concentrating on ciders about 10 years ago. I made a few good ones, but nothing remarkable.

In 2022 I decided I'd try a couple kit wines. I did a Winexpert Super Tuscan and Chardonnay. This really got me interested in getting back into it. The Chardonnay is excellent, the Super Tuscan is good but a bit flabby. I think this is a good path for me going forward and I intend to do more.

My wife and I travelled to Ireland last summer. We were both smitten by the ciders there, and drank many dry ones over the two weeks we were there. MacIvor's was my favorite, but there were others that were excellent too. They're so much more flavorful and interesting than the sweet and thin ciders that are typical in the US. So, I struck out to improve my cider making last fall. After some research I used the same locally available juice I have used before (Louisburg Cider Mill, Kansas, USA), but upped the acid and tannin significantly from my previous recipes. I did 3 one-gallon batches, the only difference being the yeast used: Cote des Blancs, Nottingham and Safale S04. The differences in the three were quite interesting. We thought S04 was the winner, but CdB was a close second. Nottingham was out for both of us. The results were very good and very encouraging to me.

So, back to wine. The kit results were very encouraging too, and I'd like to do more of them. I have started reading the kit wine forum here, and am frankly overwhelmed by the large quantity of information. I hope to be able to learn and ultimately contribute here as well.

John
 
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I
Welcome back John. Have you made any cider from fresh pressed apples yet?
I have not. The closest is from pasteurized juice from a local cider mill. This fall I may look for some, or maybe get some juice for wine. Our local supplier gets some each fall, but for some reason the deal fell through in 2023.
 
Ok, help me with the ‘welcome back’ please. I’ve posted a couple times recently, but if I’ve got a history here I don’t remember it.
 
Welcome to WMT

Another apple person. I have been running in that direction since 2022 when my trees did 50 or 55 gallons.
I will guess you understand “hard tannin” (bitters) and “soft tannin” (astringent). I have started putting soft tannin in everything non-apple since I like that flavor. This year I am studying wild malic fermentation/ wild lactic acid bacteria. My unpasteurized 2022 juice has had the pH shift upward and I started a thread on this. My current batch of apple has been treated with lysozyme, ,, the guess is that I will prevent bitter off flavor and creeping pH.
Apple is a neat fruit juice.
 
It looks like your “Joined Date” is in 2017 and since it’s been some time since then, it appears you’ve been away from things here. We’re glad to have you posting!
Ok. Gotcha and thanks. I see it now from my desktop. I didn't see it on phone.
 
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Thanks for the welcomes everyone!
Welcome to WMT

Another apple person. I have been running in that direction since 2022 when my trees did 50 or 55 gallons.
I will guess you understand “hard tannin” (bitters) and “soft tannin” (astringent). I have started putting soft tannin in everything non-apple since I like that flavor. This year I am studying wild malic fermentation/ wild lactic acid bacteria. My unpasteurized 2022 juice has had the pH shift upward and I started a thread on this. My current batch of apple has been treated with lysozyme, ,, the guess is that I will prevent bitter off flavor and creeping pH.
Apple is a neat fruit juice.
So, are you doing cider or boosting sugar to get a higher alcohol content wine?

I'm not familiar with hard and soft tannins and would like to learn more. I have been adding 'wine tannin' in larger quantities in my recent ciders. My previous recipe was a little less than ½ teaspoon per 5 gallons. The recent batches I've done, which have been much improved, have gotten 1.25 teaspoons per 5 gallons.

The other major change is upping the acid blend from a little less than 1.7 teaspoons per 5 gallons to 2.5 teaspoons per 5 gallons.
 
First of all flavors come as waves. One is sensed it washes out of the mouth and then another type of flavor comes.
tannin; hard tannins are bitter, this is a plant protecting chemical, it is the flavor of dill, in the test kitchen caffeine is used as the calibration/ detection standard. Soft tannin is complementary with / magnifies acid flavor. It is described is a feeling of rough on the tongue and roof of the mouth. The chemistry is that soft tannin is binding proteins in saliva. In red wine skins are soft tannin, seeds are hard tannin.
Thanks for the welcomes everyone!

So, are you doing cider or boosting sugar to get a higher alcohol content wine?

I'm not familiar with hard and soft tannins and would like to learn more. I have been adding 'wine tannin' in larger quantities in my recent ciders. My previous recipe was a little less than ½ teaspoon per 5 gallons. The recent batches I've done, which have been much improved, have gotten 1.25 teaspoons per 5 gallons.

The other major change is upping the acid blend from a little less than 1.7 teaspoons per 5 gallons to 2.5 teaspoons per 5 gallons.
Acid; the mouth responds to the total quantity of H+ ions. This is expressed as TA (titratable acidity). If you have a lot of fruit solids you have high TA. If you have mostly water you have low TA. TA is measured by adding alkali and watching how fast the pH changes. ,,, Cider / wine infection responds to the pH which is a measure of how many H+ are ionized or freely floating in balance with the solids., ,,, or in balance with soluble salts. Bacteria cells respond to pH, ie if you are above 3.7 you have a major risk of infection which makes off flavors. pH is measured with pH paper or a pH meter.
 
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