Help me with my port recipe - experts needed

[bradman]

I'm thinking about brewing up some wine and then fortifying it with 170 proof vodka to give me a rich tasty port but
I'm a little unsure as to which ingredients to make the wine from first and their amounts. So I was hoping that I could tap some of your guys expert knowledge.

I'm thinking of using cherries as the main fruit, then adding bananas and sultanas to give more body, possibly some elderberrys.
With smoked oak chips being added during primary to add a bit of flavour and then some homemade almond extract added at the fortifying stage. So the flavours should come from the list of ingredients below.

Cherrys
Elderberries
Bananas
Sultanas
Smoked oak
Almond

Firstly, what are your thoughts on this combination?

N secondly, what changes would you make based on your experience?

 

[jamesngalveston]

I would make cherry port are i would make elderberry.
I would forget the rest.
i would infuse the vodka with cherrys for half the other half with elderberries.
just my thoughts...and you asked what our thoughts were.

 

[bradman]

The only reason I suggested the elderberries, banana and sultanas was for body but I guess they're not needed.

What are your thoughts on oaking during primary and adding a little almond extract at fortification to add a couple of different flavour dimensions?

 

[jamesngalveston]

you could add some oak...i would halt the fermentation at around
1.055 are where it taste good...you may not need to add anything i would make that decision before you added the spirits

 

[bradman]

Thanks for the reply.

I'm was planning on producing a strong port, around 23-25% so was going to shoot for a OG of around 1.098 and take it down to an SG of 1.020 to give about 10% ABV before fortifying.

From experience do you think that taking it this low before fortifying will change the flavour much?

Also, with the proposed final ABV % would it be wise to try and get more flavour in there to combat the extra alcohol or just battle it with sugar and acid content? This was originally the reason for all the ingredients.

 

[jamesngalveston]

start out at 1.110 for a strong port, halfway to dry add your spirit using the pearson square.

http://winemakermag.com/427-luscious-port-wine

if done as above, you can make it any abv you want, and still have sugar and original flavor.

 

[seth8530]

I would recommend you taste before you attempt to stall out fermentation. Ie for me 1.055 would be way high on the sugar, but for you it might be perfect. Anyways, that is my .02$ That and of course be aware of the endless debate on whether or not to use brandy or not.. Or many other things various port makers swear by.

 

[bradman]

Thanks.

So I'll aim for an OG of 1.110, take it down to an SG of 1.049 to yield an 8% ABV , then fortify with an 80% abv vodka.

So my pearson square would look like:

80----------17

------25

8-----------55


17 parts 80% abv vodka added to 55 parts wine base.

So if I had 5 gallons of wine base, i would need to add just over 1.5 gallons of vodka to take her up to 25% abv.

(worked out by 55 / 17 = 3.236
so...
5 (gallons of base wine) / 3.236 = 1.546 gallons of 80% vodka needed)

Does that compute right with you?

I appreciate all your help with this mate

 

[bradman]

Seth, due to it being a fruit port I was under the impression that it would be better to use a vodka (well everclear, but I'm in the UK).

Is that not the case?

 

[bradman]

I'm not too bothered about sweetness as I plan to back sweeten, its more the flavours I wan't to keep. If anything I think it would be better to have it slightly dryer and then back sweeten to taste so that I can get the levels right after fortifying.

With this in mind, does having an OG of 1.091 then take it down to an SG of 1.030 before fortifying sound alright. Then back sweeten to taste?

 

[seth8530]

Taking it on down to 1.030 sounds a lot better to me than 1.055. However, it is important to remember it is to YOUR taste and not mine. And you are correct it is always easier to add sugar later than to try and take it out once its in their.

Starting out at 1.091 would be fine. Some people will argue that you should try and ferment the wine as high as possible prior to fortifying ( I am not in this camp) since they claim it means you dilute the flavour less with added spirit. However, in my honest opinion the higher you crank the sugar up to get the ABV really high the less you are using of your fruits sugar base anyways.

BTW, how cozy are you with math? If you want I could show you the why behind the pearson square if that would make it easier for you to use and understand.

Also BTW BTW, I would try and keep your ABV closer to 20%. 25% is kind of high and at that point you are moving away from port and wine world and more off into cordial/liqueur world.

 

[bradman]

I was thinking about using more fruit in the beginning to give it a bit more flavour, and also to help with the added %ABV. I did want to make a stronger port but I think I will drop my aim from 25% down to about 22% as I still want it to be a little over 20% and be port-like.

Would this method below preserve more of the fruit flavours:

Start with an OG of around 1.091, take it down to 1.030 (giving an ABV of around 8%) and then add sugar back up to 1.060 then let it come back down to 1.030 (adding just under another 4% ABV) then fortifying.

This way it should give me just under 12% when its time to fortify, and because of the amount of fruit used initially and the added sugar feed, there should be (in theory) enough fruit flavours around still.

What are your thoughts on this? Am I thinking on the right track?

My maths skills could be better but I'm always up for knowing the inner workings, thanks.

Also, any help with my recipe would be much appreciated too. This will be my first wine from scratch, but I'm the kinda guy that does his research first and comes out on top. I'm not just going to dive into this willy nilly, I want to make a quality product.

 

[ShawnDTurner]

Which varietal did you use? You can always once the desire ABV is achieved add f-pac for flavor (Merlot- Blackberry, blueberries etc.) You would not have to worry about re-fermentation at that point because of the high ABV. What are you going to use to fortify? Cheers!

 

[bradman]

Everything is still in the planning stage at the moment, looking to start in the early weeks of Jan.

I wasn't aware of f-pacs before now, I will certainly consider it.

I heard that fortifying fruit wine with brandy can change the flavour so I was going to use a high proof vodka (can't get hold of everclear here, UK)

 

[seth8530]

Be wary of calculating your step wise ABV just buy using the summations of the ABV equations..

IE

131*(1.091-1.030)+131*(1.060-1.030) might equal around 12% but it will not give you the correct ABV unless the volume stays constant in both of the cases. Their are ways around this where you can take the volume change into consideration that are not too hard to do though.

My personal thought is that you are no worse off just using more high proof vodka than you are step feeding the must sugar to reach your desired target. Unless of course, you had managed to source some fruit concentrate which is naturally higher in sugar.

Honestly, if it was me I would source some really high sugar fruit and then let it ferment down to around 1.030. Then after that I would fortify with my spirit of choice up to around 20%

 

[BigMac]

Hello Bradman
I have been making port from grapes for a number of years.
I have about 30 gal in carboys and am working out some blends.
My guidance would be to start with a base of grape juice concentrate, ferment with cooked bananas at about 3lb per 1 gal, use elderberry flowers or juice and start with oak.
I usually add my 180 proof at btw 1.04 and 1.045. Do not discount the impact of the natural sugars on the flavor. Others in our wine club tend to go the back sweetening route and my port always gets better comments from tasters. I do not back sweeten. Sometimes though it is a 3am deal to process the port to make sure you do not go lower than 1.04.
I then through oak at it. Two oz of heavy toast per 5 gal about 3 times over a year in the carboy. But you need to taste as you go.
I have added cherries to my wines at about 2 lbs per 5 gal of frozen pitted bing cherries.
I experimented with cherry juice concentrate a little but it ended up with a cough medicine flavor so I never did it to the whole batch.
I also make vanilla extract and experiment with it. I would add this in the later stages about a month before bottling.
Cheers!