Heya from Thailand

[MangoMead]

Hi folks. I'm a Californian currently living in Thailand and I am looking to get (back) into some brewing.

Back in California I had a buddy who did a lot of brewing and I helped him a lot, but I have never run my own operation.

Now I'm over here and I'm moving to a place with a nicer kitchen and more space and I have need for some projects to keep busy with and this seems like it could be a good one.

I like beer and wine ok, but honestly I love cider, mead and other odd fruit based beverages, maybe it is just the contrarian in me.

There is lots of nice local honey and tropical fruits available to experiment with so from there comes my handle and the direction I'm hoping to go with this project.

On the downside there is no availability of homebrew supplies here, so I'll have to do a lot of DIY and improvising. Some stuff I can buy online and have delivered elsewhere and either reposted or brought over with visiting friends. but some things will just simply be too bulky heavy or awkward.

One of the biggest things this makes me think on is the yeast issue. I have distiller friends who use baking yeast for their mashes and I'll probably give that a try just for the experience, but otherwise yeast will be sort of an issue.

Is it possible to keep a yeast culture alive once you have a strain you like and keep reusing it?

I also have a little concern about the ambient temperature. It does not vary too much but it is very warm, generally stays between 23c and 33c (73f - 91f) and I don't use aircon or have any sort of basemant/cellar to hide things in. Is this going to cause me trouble?

Anyway, I'm reading up on all I can and looking forward to giving all this stuff a try in the next few months.

 

[vernsgal]

Hi, welcome to the forum. Not sure on your yeast question but I'm sure someone here will be able to answer it

 

[GreginND]

You can just use the primary lees for yeast in a new batch if you are starting a batch right away. You could save lees in the fridge for a while. I do know the beer brewers save yeast commonly. If you search on washing and saving yeast you will find lots of YouTube videos etc about the process.

I think you can get by without stabilizing with sulfite and sorbate if you are going to drink the wine dry and young. Of course sweetening will be difficult without it. However, you can sweeten it up and age it if you bring the alcohol up to 18% or so by slowly adding sugar until you reach the alcohol tolerance of the yeast and it stops on its own or by fortifying with spirits.

 

[MangoMead]

Thanks GreginND,

My mom has a sourdough starter that she has had had going since I was a kid. so the idea of saving a yeast strain that I liked sort of reminded me of that, and I was sure people had probably been doing it for a good long while. I'll track down some threads on saving yeast.

Even if I can get the sulfides, I am thinking that I am definitely gonna experiment with using none or at least minimal amounts. Seems probably good to at least have the stuff around for cleaning, and maybe for that initial knockdown right before starting the ferment.

Same with the spirit fortification, and using sugar to push the ABV up until it knocks the yeast back down. I'll probably experiment with both and see what ends up being the best solution.

 

[winemaker_3352]

Welcome aboard!!!

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

The fresh young ginger, the fresh fruits we have never seen before, bees busy year round, do they sell those little combs from the native bees that are the size of a dinner plate? Is your mail so bad a pack of yeast cant get to you? You may be in one of those situations where searching for the best native yeasts on the fruit to to the fermentation might be your best bet, one suited to high temp ferments. You have to make a high content ginger mead, like quarter pound to gallon, probably preserve itself. And a galanga mead. Both of them on a mango base with honey would be over the top. So its ballons on top of gallon jugs, do you have at least jugs or do they use crocks?

WVMJ

 

[MangoMead]

The fresh young ginger, the fresh fruits we have never seen before, bees busy year round, do they sell those little combs from the native bees that are the size of a dinner plate? Is your mail so bad a pack of yeast cant get to you? You may be in one of those situations where searching for the best native yeasts on the fruit to to the fermentation might be your best bet, one suited to high temp ferments. You have to make a high content ginger mead, like quarter pound to gallon, probably preserve itself. And a galanga mead. Both of them on a mango base with honey would be over the top. So its ballons on top of gallon jugs, do you have at least jugs or do they use crocks?

WVMJ

I like that way you think bro!

There is a winery not too far from here that seems to be making wine but for the most part I see them selling a lot more grapes to tourists than wine. I sort of doubt they would be willing to share their yeast cultures but the idea of trying to ferment with the wild yeast off the grapes they sell had crossed my mind. It is on the list of topics I want to research, but there is such a vast ocean of wine lore and I can only drink it in a glass at a time.

Yes I can get raw honeycombs and fresh fruits, varieties that never leave Thailand, the local mango you see most often is a beautiful golden yellow color and so sweet and delicious when ripe. They also get to be the size of Idaho potatoes.

There is a variety of tiny pineapple that is almost sugar sweet that I have never seen anywhere else. And another variety of tiny banana whose flavor just blows most other bananas away.

Limes, sweet little oranges, pomelos. No lemons though, go figure.

Melons do really well here too, awesome cantaloupes, watermelons, honeydews and others that I don't even know the names of.

Tamarind, rambutan, mangosteen, stinky durian, guava, papaya, longan, young coconuts filled with coconut 'water'.

There is cassava (tapioca root) that can be made into beer too.

There are so many possibilities to explore here.

 

[MangoMead]

Some progress has been made on the supply acquisition front. I have a friend in VA who is coming over for a visit at the end of November. The brew shop near him sells the yeast packets I want for only $0.99 (a lot better price than $6 each + $25 minimum shipping charge) and lots of other stuff for a really good price.

My buddy is going to pick up the whole package and bring it over in his suitcase. Totally willing to wait a bit to get the supplies at such a savings. Plus it gives me lots of time to get my 'Corner Winery' built.

 

[WI_Wino]

Some progress has been made on the supply acquisition front. I have a friend in VA who is coming over for a visit at the end of November. The brew shop near him sells the yeast packets I want for only $0.99 (a lot better price than $6 each + $25 minimum shipping charge) and lots of other stuff for a really good price.

My buddy is going to pick up the whole package and bring it over in his suitcase. Totally willing to wait a bit to get the supplies at such a savings. Plus it gives me lots of time to get my 'Corner Winery' built.

Hopefully they don't get confiscated in customs! This is the way I would try first as well. Outside of carboys, fermenters, crushers, and presses, wine making equipment is pretty small and I would think could travel in a suitcase easily. I'd recommend finding some of the existing threads on "what stuff do I need to start making wine" and compare/contrast against your list.

 

[MangoMead]

Hopefully they don't get confiscated in customs! This is the way I would try first as well. Outside of carboys, fermenters, crushers, and presses, wine making equipment is pretty small and I would think could travel in a suitcase easily. I'd recommend finding some of the existing threads on "what stuff do I need to start making wine" and compare/contrast against your list.

Customs coming into Thailand via air is extremely lax. Plus there is nothing that is exactly illegal about possessing anything he would have with him. At worst they might want to levy some taxes.

All I'm thinking of is maybe 10 yeast packets (less than I first thought I'd need now that I have read up on washing and propagating a yeast culture) a dozen S airlocks, a hydrometer, a cylinder for the hydrometer, and a pound of K-meta.

Everything but the yeast and the K-meta I am sure I can get here but for at least double the price (+ a day trip to Bangkok, bleah). The K-meta I have a feeling I can track down somewhere here if I keep at it. I figure I have a good chance of finding it at the same place I'll eventually find sodium nitrite and sodium nitrate (For meat curing, another project)

So if my buddies suitcase gets too packed I'll just have him pick up the yeast and forget the rest. Mostly I'm just super stoked to get 10 packets for 10 bucks instead of 100 bucks.

Plastic 19 liter and 3 liter water jugs are ubiquitous here. The 19 liter jugs are less than $3, the 6 liter ones are free if you figure you are really paying the $1 for the 6 liters of pure water that comes inside it at the store.

No plans on crushers or pressers anytime soon, and that stuff can be got locally and cheap anyway since it's not so much of a speciality item.

Just about all the juices I want to work with at first are all available for $1-$2 a liter. There was a pineapple, orange, lime, mango, guava, papaya, and something else I forget blend I saw at the store today that I am looking forward to trying out. 100% juice. comes in 5 liter jugs for $7.75

 

[MangoMead]

FWIW I have been reading these two threads on homebrewtalk about washing yeast and then making a frozen yeast bank with the washed yeast.

With yeast so readily available and cheap for most folks it may not seem worthwhile but it seems like cool stuff to know how to do. For me it should turn into a serious money saver.

 

[WI_Wino]

Dried yeast is typically good for a year. Get 20 packets! I would get half EC-1118 and 71b-1122 if you know you are going to be trying to ferment high acidic fruits.

- Get 2 or 3 hydrometers. They only seem to break when you only own one...
- Don't forget rubber bungs for your airlocks but that requires you knowing what size your jugs are.
- I would swap out a couple of the S airlocks for 3 pieces. In my experience 3 piece can handle a little more vigorous ferment. I use them on my primaries/vigorous secondaries then switch to S style for bulk aging.
- I love my auto siphon, hate having to deal with starting siphons w/o one.
- Pectin enzyme and bentonite is a must if you are dealing with fresh fruits/juices.
- yeast nutrient is a must if you are doing meads - there are "Home remedies" that may work...

 

[MangoMead]

Dried yeast is typically good for a year. Get 20 packets! I would get half EC-1118 and 71b-1122 if you know you are going to be trying to ferment high acidic fruits.

- Get 2 or 3 hydrometers. They only seem to break when you only own one...
- Don't forget rubber bungs for your airlocks but that requires you knowing what size your jugs are.
- I would swap out a couple of the S airlocks for 3 pieces. In my experience 3 piece can handle a little more vigorous ferment. I use them on my primaries/vigorous secondaries then switch to S style for bulk aging.
- I love my auto siphon, hate having to deal with starting siphons w/o one.
- Pectin enzyme and bentonite is a must if you are dealing with fresh fruits/juices.
- yeast nutrient is a must if you are doing meads - there are "Home remedies" that may work...

Thanks for the input!

I'm planning on sticking with the K1-V116 mostly because of my ambient heat challenges. It is rated up to 35c and the info I have read says it is also good with high acid and and unusual conditions. But since I can get the packets so cheap I may get a couple of other varieties too and both the ones you mentioned are rated to 30c so that's not too bad. Any thought on Red Star Pasteur Red? it is another that is rated up to 35c but it did not sound like as good a fit as the K1-V116. The brew shop I'm in touch with in VA has it for $0.79 a packet. Maybe 5 of each is a good place to start.

Probably a good call on the hydrometers.

I have little experience with either of the airlocks. My friend back home used DIY ones made of tubing and jelly jars. I was gonna use the S types because they looked easier to clean. They are the same price so any advice or info about why to pick one over the other is appreciated.

All the jugs I'll be using for carboys have plastic caps I can drill a small hole into and use the rubber grommet, no bung plugs needed as far as I can see.

Autosiphon research is on the list now. No idea what it is or how it works but I have seen it mentioned enough times now that I'm intrigued.

Been kicking around the chemistry set question over here already. Long story short is that for now I am skipping the pectic enzyme, bentonite/Sparkolloid additives because as far as I can tell it is just about reducing cloudiness, and I don't really care about that. I care a lot more about not putting weird stuff in my brew that I don't need to.

 

[WVMountaineerJack]

Use the pectinases, its just a protein that eats pectin, nothing weird about it, and it will help you get more juice out. Just crush your fruit, add some pectinase and later your yeast and away you go. WVMJ

 

[WI_Wino]

pectic enzyme helps break down fruit so you end up with more wine and less goop

s style airlocks are harder to clean, the 3 piece ones are much easier to clean as it comes apart (there is a lid, the main stem and then a bubble piece)

youtube link for the autosiphon: [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAiAUnEsGy8[/ame]

Basically you don't need to suck on a tube or fill it with water to start a siphon, you just give it a pump or two.

 

[MangoMead]

Nice tip on the airlocks. I'll just go with the 3 piece ones since they are more easily cleaned and can take heavier gas flows.

My understanding of the pectic enzymes is that is causes more methanol to be produced by making the pectins more easily digestible by the yeast. I don't think the levels are serious enough to be of great concern but I prefer to go with less toxic over more convenient, even if it is just a little bit.

The autosiphon looks cool.

I'm a ways away from trying out the cassava, and I doubt I'd start from the raw tubers even when I did want to try. I'd probably get some product from further down the line.