How do u clean your bottles ??

[hawkwing]

I know I have a wrong idea on the no rinse thing on starsan and sulfites I need to get over.

No point in arguing about it. But it’s more of a screw up than an actual risk if done right. Which to be honest is a good reason for my sometimes scramble brain to stop. But I still will use it to soak and clean new to me dirty bottles and carboys. But I can definitely switch to using starsan without rinsing.

Not sure how such a small amount of starsan can sanitize my spoon but not kill my yeast when I stir it. I know it’s way diluted so hopefully it never is too much. I will try to not overthink it.

 

[wineview]

I'll be blunt -- you're wrong. The process is to take a clean item and douse it with a no-rinse sanitizing solution, e.g., K-meta solution, Star San, or other (can't recall other names). These are "no rinse" because they cause no harm to the wine, and in the case of K-meta solution, provide a bit of extra K-meta.

When you rinse a sanitized item with unsanitary tap water, you have undone the effort of sanitizing. This is not opinion, this is chemistry.

Do a search -- bleach and the substances used to chlorinate municipal water are not identical. Similar, but not the same.

Personally, I don't care what you do to your wine. As I said, your wine, your call. However, professional winemakers and wine researchers state that bleach in a winery is a bad idea. The following excerpt is taken from this page:

https://www.awri.com.au/information_services/ebulletin/2020/03/27/winery-sanitation-and-covid-19/
"With regards to sanitising, chlorine-based bleach solutions are typically mentioned as part of sanitation regimes by the World Health Organization (WHO), DOH and CDC. However, chlorine-based sanitisers and bleaches are NOT RECOMMENDED in a winery setting due to their potential to generate chlorophenol and chloroanisole taints."

Yes and yes….

 

[mikewatkins727]

. . . I will try to not overthink it.

You're making progress.

 

[tullamore]

How is it a gamble? Forgetting to rinse? Or do you mean rinsing after sterilization?

its Bleach - enough said - read winemaker81 comments below
we are here to help there's many of us that's been making wine a for a while
sounds like u are just starting out -

 

[hawkwing]

I’ve been making country wine and beer for almost 30 years long before I had access to any of these things you are recommending using. I’m just planning to start with real wine grapes though. I know with absolute certainty that bleach is not dangerous if used right. I just don’t want to argue. And by the way it can be used to treat water it’s just not as cheap as chlorine gas. It can be and is used as a backup in water plants though. And it’s also shipped with camping water filters in dilute form because filters don’t remove viruses. So it definitely can be in tap water. After a few rinses the residual is basically the same as the water coming out of the tap.

I will agree it’s best to avoid as a best practice to avoid screw ups. But to soak some moldy bottles I just don’t see the harm. Since after a few rinses you could not tell that it’s not just tap water in the bottle. Anyway let’s keep it civil.

 

[winemaker81]

No point in arguing about it.

My reason for harping on this is that others will read this thread down the line. Certain actions are not conducive to good winemaking practices, and making it clear why a given practice is a bad idea will help others. Folks on this forum have reported bleach related problems, so it's a real thing.

Not sure how such a small amount of starsan can sanitize my spoon but not kill my yeast when I stir it. I know it’s way diluted so hopefully it never is too much. I will try to not overthink it.

AFAIK, Star San kills yeast. You are on target here, regarding dilution and it also has to do with the amount of microbial life.

Sanitation starts with cleaning the items, removing foreign matter (dirt, etc.). The Star San solution is strong, especially in comparison to the potential amount of microbial life left on the items. Shake it off, and there's very little Star San left. Now place that item in a quantity of wine, say 1 US gallon. The amount of Star San in relation to the yeast in the wine is trivial, so if a few yeast cells are killed, it's not noticeable.

Keep in mind we are not sterilizing the items (100% kill), we are sanitizing, which is reducing microbial life to a level below which it is a threat to the wine.

Please believe me that if I was telling you wrong, others would be on me like flamingos on a tyrannosaur (which is the real reason dinosaurs became extinct. The meteor killed most of the flamingos.).

 

[tullamore]

My reason for harping on this is that others will read this thread down the line. Certain actions are not conducive to good winemaking practices, and making it clear why a given practice is a bad idea will help others. Folks on this forum have reported bleach related problems, so it's a real thing.


AFAIK, Star San kills yeast. You are on target here, regarding dilution and it also has to do with the amount of microbial life.

Sanitation starts with cleaning the items, removing foreign matter (dirt, etc.). The Star San solution is strong, especially in comparison to the potential amount of microbial life left on the items. Shake it off, and there's very little Star San left. Now place that item in a quantity of wine, say 1 US gallon. The amount of Star San in relation to the yeast in the wine is trivial, so if a few yeast cells are killed, it's not noticeable.

Keep in mind we are not sterilizing the items (100% kill), we are sanitizing, which is reducing microbial life to a level below which it is a threat to the wine.

Please believe me that if I was telling you wrong, others would be on me like flamingos on a tyrannosaur (which is the real reason dinosaurs became extinct. The meteor killed most of the flamingos.).

View attachment 87499

nicely said!!!!!
i think this thread is done, finito

 

[hawkwing]

I understand why you say no bleach. And I’m happy to leave it there. Funny BTW! I’ll have to show my kids that.

 

[JimmyAdams]

Yes and yes….

yes