Cellar Craft How Early Do You Notice 'Kit Taste' Aroma

[LoneStarLori]

I have never tasted KT in any kits and that is all I make. It seems some of us do and some don't.


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I have done mostly kits, one juice bucket and one Mustang from my own grapes. Also a few one gal fruit wines. I have no idea what a "kit taste" is. I have found no aromas that are the same from one to another on the kits. If there was a pattern, I might be able to call it KT. But since all mine smell unique, I'll just say I can't taste or smell it if it's there.

 

[cocroach]

I find in most of the kits I've made so far (RJS and CellarCraft) have the same sweet artificial chemical like aroma from initial fermentation. I find the smell to be more off-putting than the taste, but perhaps this goes to Paul's point that I might just be smelling what a young wine smells like.

I tried extensively to find information on the KT topic since the subject seems to frequently come up on winemaking forums, but surprisingly there's not much out there. This baffles me a little... Perhaps this is something that manufacturers and retailers shy away from addressing since it may affect their bottom-line.

 

[SouthernChemist]

I find in most of the kits I've made so far (RJS and CellarCraft) have the same sweet artificial chemical like aroma from initial fermentation. I find the smell to be more off-putting than the taste, but perhaps this goes to Paul's point that I might just be smelling what a young wine smells like.

I tried extensively to find information on the KT topic since the subject seems to frequently come up on winemaking forums, but surprisingly there's not much out there. This baffles me a little... Perhaps this is something that manufacturers and retailers shy away from addressing since it may affect their bottom-line.

It's possible...but again, much of the support for kit taste or aroma is rather anecdotal. They may also not feel compelled to investigate something that some people do not claim to even experience.

 

[Boatboy24]

To me, the KT comes around at about 8+ weeks, after the wine has cleared and is (per the directions) ready to bottle. I don't find it particularly offensive at all, but it's almost like "fake fruit". That is, the wines are very fruit forward and there is a perceived "artificial sweetness" that I get. The only reason I sense this as KT is because I noticed just about every kit I do has this for at least a few months. Prior to the 8 week-ish point, there is an astringency that I associate as "young wine", as opposed to KT. Over time (say after a year or more), that fruit fades, and tannins come forward. This brings wines more in line with what I'd expect, knowing what varietal they are and having read some descriptions from the manufacturer.

The young juice bucket and fresh grape wines I've done have the astringency I mentioned, but not the fake fruit.

 

[ou8amaus]

Perhaps this is something that manufacturers and retailers shy away from addressing since it may affect their bottom-line.

Like I said, conspiracy!!!

I am being slightly tongue in cheek... but after asking the owners/employees at a few of the LHBS around my area and being told unanimously they have no idea what I am talking about, and that this is the first they hear of Kit Taste... makes you wonder...

 

[jsiddall]

Being new to all this myself I don't know what everyone else calls "KT" but the three premium red kits I have done so far all had a strange, and fairly strong, aroma and and taste right from bottling at 6 weeks (which is the first time I could try them since they were made at a local FoP). The closest thing I can equate it to is the smell of overripe bananas. In another thread I started about it this was attributed to isoamyl acetate and some analogous esters of higher alcohols. Overripe bananas do have biogenic amines which yeast can also produce in wine but I can't say for sure that is what I am tasting. Regardless, I do think that this is the smell/taste that people refer to KT and a few months down the road it is definitely subsiding.

 

[byathread]

I've read some can taste it and some can't. So if you can't consider yourself lucky! I agree with boatboy and some of the previous posters. To me it also comes across as an artificial raspberry-ish flavor and a perceived sweetness. I've only made kit wines and all are young (but I've never tasted it in meads or fruit wines). There's a different flavor/aroma I associate with young wines that is more of a green flavor, sort of herbaceous/harsh. Both, I hope, will fade in time.
The Red Mountain Cab I just bottled didn't have any kit taste that I could detect. That was very exciting.

 

[cocroach]

I've read some can taste it and some can't. So if you can't consider yourself lucky! I agree with boatboy and some of the previous posters. To me it also comes across as an artificial raspberry-ish flavor and a perceived sweetness. I've only made kit wines and all are young (but I've never tasted it in meads or fruit wines). There's a different flavor/aroma I associate with young wines that is more of a green flavor, sort of herbaceous/harsh. Both, I hope, will fade in time.
The Red Mountain Cab I just bottled didn't have any kit taste that I could detect. That was very exciting.

Byathread, did you do anything different to your Red Mountain Cab (bulk/barrel aging, oak additions) that might have been why you didn't detect any KT? How long did you want before bottling? I have this kit on enroute.

 

[Gwand]

Byathread, did you do anything different to your Red Mountain Cab (bulk/barrel aging, oak additions) that might have been why you didn't detect any KT? How long did you want before bottling? I have this kit on enroute.

The first wine I made was a wine expert eclipse Cabernet kit. It is almost a year old and has kit smell and taste. Because it was my first kit, I followed the directions completely, even adding the sorbate. I never planned to back sweeten so this was a mistake. I am not certain if the KT I am experiencing is a true kit taste or the sorbate. I never added sorbate to another wine so as soon as I start bottling my other red wines I should know.

 

[Sudz]

I've been making kit wines for over five years now. I've only made one batch from fresh picked grapes, a red Zin. All of the "white" wine kits have been good with the premium kits producing very good results.

Of the 23 red kits I've made, none have been very good. Great color, and clarity, just characterized by a common aroma/taste that is unpleasant to my wife and I. It does fade with time but even our 2 1/2 year old efforts are not something we enjoy. The very best have been okay. Two Buck Chuck from Trader Joes blows our best reds away.

I've never observed this from commercial wines and I've had a number of green reds from local vineyards. Our only fresh grape effort was outstanding without a hint of this offending flavor. I don't know what KT is for certain but I've come to think this flavor in our reds must be it. I've come the point in my wine making where reds are just simply not an option any longer. They are expensive and disappointing and despite my best efforts I have not been successful in identifying the offending culprit.

I know a great many things its not... sanitization, chemicals, process, storage... etc. simply because our whites never miss and neither do my brews.

Sadly, the one thing I've not been able to do to explore my problem is to taste someone else's kit results. I'm curious to find out if this taste is present in another's product. Unfortunately, OKC doesn't have a wine making club so finding another enthusiast hasn't been possible... still looking however.

 

[byathread]

Byathread, did you do anything different to your Red Mountain Cab (bulk/barrel aging, oak additions) that might have been why you didn't detect any KT? How long did you want before bottling? I have this kit on enroute.

My two other reds were 10-12L kits and the RMC is 18L. All were bulk aged a short time. Another different thing about the RMC is that primary fermentation temp spiked around 86F whereas my other reds stayed in the mid-70s throughout fermentation. Also, RMC has more oak, and just generally has a lot more going on in the nose and palate so I may be distracted enough not to notice the underlying KT. I don't think there is any magic bullet with this one, I just don't taste it now and hopefully I won't!

 

[adambaum]

Pretty much all my reds have KT until about 2yrs of age. I no longer use the Sorbate if fermenting until dry and that seems to help a bit In Reducing the overall time before KT goes away. Never experienced KT with whites. Maybe it has something to do with the tannins? I've also noticed that kits with skins tend to suffer less from KT as well.

Adam


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[user 31015]

Maybe pasteurization does something to the tannins in red. That could be why some aging as/or extra oaking seems to help cover up the taste.

 

[ou8amaus]

The kit makers are required to manipulate the grapes they have access to so as to produce a viable and reliable product. 1. They are starting with relatively low end grapes 2. I read somewhere that they add enzymes to aid in the extraction of color from the grape skins 3.they remove anywhere from 5 to 16 liters of water 4.they vacuum pasteurize the liquid. These processes are done to reds AND whites... all except #2, color extraction. Seeing as whites are commonly seen as having little or no Kit taste I believe this step is the culprit. All we can do is try to mask it, and wait for it to diminish with time. That being said so far I have made all my (grape) wine from kits, but this fall I am going to give fresh grapes a try.

 

[SouthernChemist]

The kit makers are required to manipulate the grapes they have access to so as to produce a viable and reliable product. 1. They are starting with relatively low end grapes 2. I read somewhere that they add enzymes to aid in the extraction of color from the grape skins 3.they remove anywhere from 5 to 16 liters of water 4.they vacuum pasteurize the liquid. These processes are done to reds AND whites... all except #2, color extraction. Seeing as whites are commonly seen as having little or no Kit taste I believe this step is the culprit. All we can do is try to mask it, and wait for it to diminish with time. That being said so far I have made all my (grape) wine from kits, but this fall I am going to give fresh grapes a try.

From what I understand, both red and white grapes are treated with enzymes to some extent. Red grapes are placed in a maceration tank and treated with enzymes to break down cellulose and extract color, tannin, and aroma. This process is done chilled as the manufacturer cannot rely on fermentation and higher temperature to do the extraction. The concentration process could, in theory, be done at a relatively low temperature depending on the setup. It would be interesting to see it. In the past, people made an argument that the pasteurization process was responsible for kit taste/aroma, but even there the conditions are not as harsh as they used to be.

Again, though, it may not be possible to attribute one specific cause for kit taste/aroma.

 

[FTC Wines]

OK, I have been following this thread & saying " why don't I have KT?" Been making kits & fruit wines for 7 yrs now. We don't taste KT, so are our "tasters" off or do some people not get KT? Roy

 

[bkisel]

OK, I have been following this thread & saying " why don't I have KT?" Been making kits & fruit wines for 7 yrs now. We don't taste KT, so are our "tasters" off or do some people not get KT? Roy

At least some of us don't notice KT as evidenced by posters in this very thread. Re-read the thread and you'll find us.

So, either our tasters are off or we just don't get it (as you suggest) OR ??????????

 

[FTC Wines]

Bkisel, I saw others didn't have it or taste it. Was wondering which it was, but unless we get a bunch together to do taste tests we will probably never know " is KT there OR is it that we can't taste it"

 

[Sudz]

...Never experienced KT with whites.
Adam

Same here... I've never experienced it with reds made from grapes. KT does seem to decline with time but never really goes totally away.

My wife readily identifies it but it doesn't bother her as much. I really don't like it and have been working to understand it without much success I might add.

 

[Sudz]

...Never experienced KT with whites.
Adam

Same here... I've never experienced it with reds made from grapes. KT does seem to decline with time but never really goes totally away.

My wife readily identifies it but it doesn't bother her as much. I really don't like it and have been working to understand it without much success I might add.