How long does it take for Tartrate Crystals to appear?

[crabjoe]

I took some wine I made from Juice and placed it outside over night.. Temp is in the upper 20s. Assuming crystals will appear, how long would it take? Does it take days or will the appear over night?

Thanks!

 

[Johnd]

I took some wine I made from Juice and placed it outside over night.. Temp is in the upper 20s. Assuming crystals will appear, how long would it take? Does it take days or will the appear over night?

Thanks!

The length of time for crystals to form is dependent upon many things, temperature, level of saturation tartrates within the wine, and its chemical composition. I wouldn't expect that overnight would do much of anything. Some wines are tartrate stable and won't drop any diamonds, and all wines are different.
My wines are stored in my wine room at 55F for many months before bottling, by the time they are bottled, any wine diamonds that could form will have done so. Once bottled and stored at 55F, no additional precipitation takes place. If I took one of those bottles and put it in the fridge at 35F, I would expect additional precipitation to take place. The key to tartrate stabilization, is to do it for a period of time at the temperature, or below, that your wine will be stored long term.
Perhaps you can find a place to store your wine where the temps are more moderate, like in a converted fridge, for several weeks or months, in the mid 30's. Be cautious of storing it in a place that is too cold, you can freeze your wine with temps in the 20's.

 

[cmason1957]

I'm with John, I have an extra fridge that for red wines, I set to as low as it goes, which is about 33F. The wines go into it for about two or three weeks, then a rack and they won't ever get chilled that low.

 

[crabjoe]

After reading John's response, I went out to bring the wine back in, expecting nothing to have happened.

But what do I see.. I see the bottom of the carboy looking like there's very light frost on it. Almost like a super thin layer of sugar was sprinkled on it. Could this be crystals or possible some yeast that didn't get filtered out now settled because of the cold crash?

BTW, if this is crystals, will they disappear as the wine warms up to room temp or will the crystals stay?

Thanks!

 

[cmason1957]

It might be tartaric acid crystals, hard to say. They should not go back into suspension if the wine warms back up. A chemical reaction happened and those are, for the most part, not 2 way.

 

[crabjoe]

It might be tartaric acid crystals, hard to say. They should not go back into suspension if the wine warms back up. A chemical reaction happened and those are, for the most part, not 2 way.

I actually have more sediment now, and it looks to be dead yeast.. I had filtered this wine with a 1 micron filter, but I guess that wasn't enough... I'm going to look for a 0.5 or 0.45 micron filter.... I really don't want any kind of sediment forming in the bottles over time.

 

[Ajmassa]

I actually have more sediment now, and it looks to be dead yeast.. I had filtered this wine with a 1 micron filter, but I guess that wasn't enough... I'm going to look for a 0.5 or 0.45 micron filter.... I really don't want any kind of sediment forming in the bottles over time.

Sounds like you are trying to force this early. I don’t filter anything or use clearing agents or cold stabilize unless it needs it, and sediment forming later has never been an issue. Why would you assume dead yeast?

Btw during bench trials for acid removal I froze samples of wine for 24 hours. (All contained K-bicarbonate) After only 24 hours every sample developed tartrate crystals

 

[crabjoe]

Sounds like you are trying to force this early. I don’t filter anything or use clearing agents or cold stabilize unless it needs it, and sediment forming later has never been an issue. Why would you assume dead yeast?

Btw during bench trials for acid removal I froze samples of wine for 24 hours. (All contained K-bicarbonate) After only 24 hours every sample developed tartrate crystals View attachment 57571

Now you have me confused.. what I'm seeing in your picture looks almost identical to what I'm seeing in my carboy. I had thought it was dead yeast because the pix of crystals I've seen looked larger, where it actually looked like large sugar crystals. Looking at your pic, I'm now thinking I have tartrate crystals. Boy is this confusing....

 

[Ajmassa]

Now you have me confused.. what I'm seeing in your picture looks almost identical to what I'm seeing in my carboy. I had thought it was dead yeast because the pix of crystals I've seen looked larger, where it actually looked like large sugar crystals. Looking at your pic, I'm now thinking I have tartrate crystals. Boy is this confusing....

Well there’s no guidebook on this stuff. And no way to tell what’s on the bottom or the surface or whatever without context regardless of how it looks. After aging for a winter the crystals literally sparkle- kinda gorgeous. Can also get harder and chippy after time. It changes. I think it’s pretty safe to say the new sediment is a reaction from the large temp swing.
As long as crabjoe is concerned about sediment/clearing I’ll keep on saying the same thing; Mother Nature and Father Time want to help. You should let them [emoji6]