How much color extraction is acceptable?

[RottenGrapeJuice]

Hey all, it’s that time of year again!

So in reflection on my past two years of making wine from grapes (instead of kits) the final product has been consistently light in color. First year was Pinot Noir, second was cab sav. Now I understand that PN is notoriously lighter, but I didn’t anticipate that same issue with the cab.

My question i guess is do we really care? I was considering a cold soak, but I’m not really set up to do that and not sure that I want to take on the extra risk. But at the same time I want to make the best wine possible. I’m just wondering if it’s me or if maybe the grapes were not ideal (or combo of both). Thoughts?

 

[NoQuarter]

The color should only matter to your preference, unless you are entering it into a competition or something. I believe the color is made darker by extending skin contact as much as possible but I know some chemicals and clarifying agents can strip away color.
I am currently finishing this years muscadine wine and have used color pro."Scottlabs" I can see a much brighter red than in previous years at this stage but it just finished fermentation.... I will have to see if it holds over the next few months.

 

[winemaker81]

Color to some extent reflects body, so the more color you've extracted, the more of everything else. This varies by varietal, as some do not have the color to extract.

My grapes are trucked from CA to NC and arrive very cold. It takes at least a day to warm up to the 60's F, so I have 1 day of cold soak. Color Pro has REALLY made a difference, including affecting kits with skin packs.

Ferment until done -- pressing early reduces what is extracted. This year I'm considering pressing 3 days after I judge fermentation is complete.

 

[Cynewulf]

Hey all, it’s that time of year again!

So in reflection on my past two years of making wine from grapes (instead of kits) the final product has been consistently light in color. First year was Pinot Noir, second was cab sav. Now I understand that PN is notoriously lighter, but I didn’t anticipate that same issue with the cab.

My question i guess is do we really care? I was considering a cold soak, but I’m not really set up to do that and not sure that I want to take on the extra risk. But at the same time I want to make the best wine possible. I’m just wondering if it’s me or if maybe the grapes were not ideal (or combo of both). Thoughts?

What winemaking process are you following (maceration time, etc.)? I don’t worry about color much, but am happy with the color of my reds. I tend to use a lot of whole clusters during maceration, which can both absorb color from the must but naturally stabilize it as well. As mentioned, other folks here will use enzymes combined with products like Color Pro or Opti Red and are happy with the results they get. Another option is to blend in naturally darker, more tannic wines or wines made from teinturier grapes like Alicante Bouschet to get the color results you’re looking for.

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

What winemaking process are you following (maceration time, etc.)? I don’t worry about color much, but am happy with the color of my reds. I tend to use a lot of whole clusters during maceration, which can both absorb color from the must but naturally stabilize it as well. As mentioned, other folks here will use enzymes combined with products like Color Pro or Opti Red and are happy with the results they get. Another option is to blend in naturally darker, more tannic wines or wines made from teinturier grapes like Alicante Bouschet to get the color results you’re looking for.

I crush the grapes, lightly sulfite and wait a day. Then pitch the yeast. Must usually is ready to be pressed around the 4-5 day mark which I believe is a little early. So my thought process would be to cool down the must and slow the process, but then this will reduce color extraction. There must be a happy medium between extraction and skin time in regards to temp

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Color to some extent reflects body, so the more color you've extracted, the more of everything else. This varies by varietal, as some do not have the color to extract.

My grapes are trucked from CA to NC and arrive very cold. It takes at least a day to warm up to the 60's F, so I have 1 day of cold soak. Color Pro has REALLY made a difference, including affecting kits with skin packs.

Ferment until done -- pressing early reduces what is extracted. This year I'm considering pressing 3 days after I judge fermentation is complete.

Color pro is fantastic stuff but it’s crazy pricey even for commercial wineries I’m using like $500-800 of it yearly

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

Color pro is fantastic stuff but it’s crazy pricey even for commercial wineries I’m using like $500-800 of it yearly

It’s interesting because Scott Labs seems to have a few different products that claim to do the same thing. Have you experimented with Color Pro vs something like Lallzyme EX (since it’s cheaper)?

 

[winemaker81]

It’s interesting because Scott Labs seems to have a few different products that claim to do the same thing. Have you experimented with Color Pro vs something like Lallzyme EX (since it’s cheaper)?

Read the details. Color Pro appears to do what several of their product do.

I've gotten great color from it, although this year I'm going to experiment and use a lesser dose. Previously I used the max dose, as it appeared the product had a short shelf life, so I used the entire bottle (no point in throwing it out). but it has a year in the fridge, so I'm going to see if I can get 2 years out of the bottle.

 

[Nebbiolo020]

It’s interesting because Scott Labs seems to have a few different products that claim to do the same thing. Have you experimented with Color Pro vs something like Lallzyme EX (since it’s cheaper)?

They really don’t do the same thing different products for different uses closest product that’s cheaper is made by laffort, it’s called He Grand Cru it’s a enzyme like color pro

 

[Nebbiolo020]

Read the details. Color Pro appears to do what several of their product do.

I've gotten great color from it, although this year I'm going to experiment and use a lesser dose. Previously I used the max dose, as it appeared the product had a short shelf life, so I used the entire bottle (no point in throwing it out). but it has a year in the fridge, so I'm going to see if I can get 2 years out of the bottle.

It keeps up to 4 years

 

[anthocyanin]

I am making Pinot Noir for my first from-grapes wine this year. My plans are to do a 2-3 day cold soak (using an Inkbird controlled chest freezer), do a ~10% saignee mid-way through the cold soak, and use Lallzyme EX, Tannin FT Rouge Soft and Opti-Red during fermentation with RC-212 yeast to promote color extraction and stability. All that being said, if you're happy with your wine that's all that matters! I personally am looking to getting all the color and extraction I can out of the grapes.

 

[CDrew]

Enzymes are the way to solve this problem. I use the Lallzyme and have never tried the color pro, though I'd like too. But the Lallzyme works amazingly well. I'll come back and post a picture I posted this am on another thread. It's an overnight soak of Syrah with Lallzyne EX-V. It shows how much color just that simple step provides. Highly recommended.

And just for the record, I think color is very important in the enjoyment of wine. And it works both ways, If I saw an overly dark Pinot Noir, I'd suspect that Megapurple was used. But a light Cabernet would not be as nice.

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

I am making Pinot Noir for my first from-grapes wine this year. My plans are to do a 2-3 day cold soak (using an Inkbird controlled chest freezer), do a ~10% saignee mid-way through the cold soak, and use Lallzyme EX, Tannin FT Rouge Soft and Opti-Red during fermentation with RC-212 yeast to promote color extraction and stability. All that being said, if you're happy with your wine that's all that matters! I personally am looking to getting all the color and extraction I can out of the grapes.

Guy is going IN on his first grape wine, I love it. I’d refer to this as throwing the kitchen sink at it

 

[RottenGrapeJuice]

Enzymes are the way to solve this problem. I use the Lallzyme and have never tried the color pro, though I'd like too. But the Lallzyme works amazingly well. I'll come back and post a picture I posted this am on another thread. It's an overnight soak of Syrah with Lallzyne EX-V. It shows how much color just that simple step provides. Highly recommended.

And just for the record, I think color is very important in the enjoyment of wine. And it works both ways, If I saw an overly dark Pinot Noir, I'd suspect that Megapurple was used. But a light Cabernet would not be as nice.

View attachment 105623

@anthocyanin see this is interesting because I was also considering a Saignée for rose but if this is the color overnight with enzymes, it may have to be done sooner than either of us think, maybe 6-8 hours

 

[anthocyanin]

@anthocyanin see this is interesting because I was also considering a Saignée for rose but if this is the color overnight with enzymes, it may have to be done sooner than either of us think, maybe 6-8 hours

I do tend to go all-in on hobbies lol. I've been making fruit wine for ~3 years now, mostly from store bought juices but I've done blueberry and elderberry from whole fruit (dried in the case of elderberries).

For the saignee my plan is to wait to add the enzymes until after I siphon off the saignee.

 

[hawkwing]

I was pretty happy with Lallzyme EX-V. I got it because its dry and has a longer shelf life than Color Pro. I need so little it's nice to have something that lasts longer. That said liquid enzymes might be more potent not sure.

How long did you have on the skins? Did you press them hard or just take the free run juice? The Italian store owner here said to press fairly soon and said I was going too long. But I wanted a bold wine so I left it much longer maybe 2-3 weeks. Some go even longer.