How to get the dry, tannic taste in red wine

[baron4406]

I've made quite alot of wine, just got into grapes about 5 years ago. I also love visiting wineries and general wine tasting. One thing my wines really lack is that mouth drying, tannic feel of a "commercial" wines. So why exactly causes this? I have a 2 year old mixed black all-grape wine that i purposely over oaked to try and get a tannic "bite". After a year of bottle aging the oak is gone, but no tannins. does this come from barrel aging?

 

[pillswoj]

What do you consider over oaking, what type and at what point did you add it

 

[ceeaton]

I'd suggest using grapes that have more tannins in them to start with. Petit Verdot, Petite Syrah, Cab Sauvignon. Who knows what was in that mixed black batch?

 

[Johnd]

Tannins come from the grape skins and are extracted from the grapes during fermentation (can also be added with oak barrels, oak adjuncts, and powders / extracts). Post fermentation, tannins can also be extracted from the seeds, though it has been noted that they are more harsh and bitter.

You can increase your extraction in a number of ways, enzymes (EX-V), hot ferments, leaving stems in the must for a period of time, to name a few. Oak chips during fermentation can contribute as well. Hard pressing of the skins will also release a lot of tannins, which can be integrated back into the wine if they are lacking in tannins.

Lastly, selecting the grapes themselves have much to do with tannin content. Cab and Petite Sirah are high tannin grapes. What kind of grapes are you using?

 

[Ajmassa]

Tannins come from the grape skins and are extracted from the grapes during fermentation (can also be added with oak barrels, oak adjuncts, and powders / extracts). Post fermentation, tannins can also be extracted from the seeds, though it has been noted that they are more harsh and bitter.

You can increase your extraction in a number of ways, enzymes (EX-V), hot ferments, leaving stems in the must for a period of time, to name a few. Oak chips during fermentation can contribute as well. Hard pressing of the skins will also release a lot of tannins, which can be integrated back into the wine if they are lacking in tannins.

Lastly, selecting the grapes themselves have much to do with tannin content. Cab and Petite Sirah are high tannin grapes. What kind of grapes are you using?

This is a great reply John. It’s nice to see all the options together in one organized post.
You said “to name a few” - I’m curious what other options you were thinking. I guess an over extended fermentation would be another way to load up on tannin and letting skins macerate linger. But for us homewinemakers that option always made me nervous since you run the risk of ruining the wine without proper equipment.
Correct me if I’m wrong- but if we were to go buck wild with tannin extraction, then we would also need to balance it out. Meaning high tannin opens the door to go high brix and high acid- going after a big wine yet a balanced wine. And then obviously we’d be adding a couple years for everything to fall into place. This sound about right?

 

[Johnd]

This is a great reply John. It’s nice to see all the options together in one organized post.
You said “to name a few” - I’m curious what other options you were thinking. I guess an over extended fermentation would be another way to load up on tannin and letting skins macerate linger. But for us homewinemakers that option always made me nervous since you run the risk of ruining the wine without proper equipment.
Correct me if I’m wrong- but if we were to go buck wild with tannin extraction, then we would also need to balance it out. Meaning high tannin opens the door to go high brix and high acid- going after a big wine yet a balanced wine. And then obviously we’d be adding a couple years for everything to fall into place. This sound about right?

I wasn’t necessarily focusing on nailing all of the options, just highlighting those that popped into my head, while acknowledging that there may be others. I suspect that our OP is using grapes which are on the lowing side of the tannin spectrum, which is easy to account for, but probably requires more intervention than just focusing on extraction, maybe a combo of stuff like fermentation oak and added tannin powder after AF / MLF.

As for you “buck wild” question, it does sound about right, and I’ve got a few that fit into that category, highly extracted EX-V enzyme, hot ferment, hard pressed, high ABV, Cab and Petite Sirah. Barrels have mellowed them a bit, but extra bottle time will have to be employed as well. Are they balanced? Time will tell, but I think so..............

 

[salcoco]

try post fermentation tannin in powder form that is available from scotlabs.com. I think More
Wine also offers. you can add the powder under controlled conditions to get the mouthfeel you desire

 

[baron4406]

Great guys thanks! I'll try some post fermentation tannins, though my wine I just bottles I added More Wine's Finishing tannins and they really didn't do much even at the max dose. BTW for those who asked it was an all grape "mixed black" and no one can tell me what's actually in it though I'd guess its a Syrah/Cab blend.

 

[mainshipfred]

try post fermentation tannin in powder form that is available from scotlabs.com. I think More
Wine also offers. you can add the powder under controlled conditions to get the mouthfeel you desire

There are many types of post fermentation tannins. Finishing, ageing, cellaring, etc. but I never really understood the difference since they are all post fermentation tannins.

 

[salcoco]

suggest visiting scottlabs.com and browse there Fermentation Handbook. I believe it is on line for downloading although many pages. other wise call and they will send one. should able to view it on the web site and they explain the different tannin and what they are made from.

 

[mainshipfred]

suggest visiting scottlabs.com and browse there Fermentation Handbook. I believe it is on line for downloading although many pages. other wise call and they will send one. should able to view it on the web site and they explain the different tannin and what they are made from.

Thanks, didn't know it existed and I bookmarded the page. Will have to read through it later.

 

[crushday]

Baron4406, Your experience is very similar to mine. I once asked a very similar question to Tim Vandergrift ([email protected]) and this was his reply:

"My suggestion for your red kits is to use a post-fermentation tannin adjustment. In particular, Scott Laboratories has a range of tannins that are designed to be added to wine just before bottling to improve mouthfeel and balance fruit and astringency. My two favorites for this purpose are Tannin Riche and Tannin Riche Extra. I sometimes even add a dash to white wine to add subtle barrel notes of coconut and vanilla."

 

[baron4406]

George I added that to my latest red I bottled, even at the max dose it really didn't add much. Maybe slightly better mouth-feel but no mouth drying tannic feel.

 

[porkchopmessiah]

George I added that to my latest red I bottled, even at the max dose it really didn't add much. Maybe slightly better mouth-feel but no mouth drying tannic feel.

what kind of dose per gallon??

 

[baron4406]

I think it was the max dose they recommend. 0.4g per gallon I think

 

[porkchopmessiah]

try post fermentation tannin in powder form that is available from scotlabs.com. I think More
Wine also offers. you can add the powder under controlled conditions to get the mouthfeel you desire

any rule of thumb for baseline? im doing pails of juice which will lack the skins during primary..i have checked threads and found .4g/gal as a dosage, just as you say, I realize its a "by taste" thing but looking for a starting point give the lack of skins

 

[Kraffty]

Remember that tannins can also introduce bitterness to your wine if overdone. Especially seed tannins. Like everything else in wine go slowly and test as you go.
Mike

 

[porkchopmessiah]

I think one of my issues is also having trouble correlating the verbiage of wine making to the feel when drinking, dont get me wrong I've done my share of tastings with the flavor wheel..but if there's such a thing as a numb palette...that might be me

 

[sour_grapes]

any rule of thumb for baseline? im doing pails of juice which will lack the skins during primary..i have checked threads and found .4g/gal as a dosage, just as you say, I realize its a "by taste" thing but looking for a starting point give the lack of skins

I have used as much as 0.5 g/gal of Tannin Riche Extra to good effect.