Other If you had one yeast for bold reds

[winemaker81]

Everyone here is pretty open about what they do. Who would we be competing with?

I used to participate in gaming forums, and use technical forums in my day job. ******* behavior by arrogant, overgrown children is sadly common. It's mostly about being perceived as smarter than everyone else. Conversely, here on WMT we get frequent feedback that this forum is very beginner friendly.

@REDRUM, who conducted a survey of home winemakers in spring 2020, recently posted about a paper (Making Homemade Wine, Online) he wrote containing some of this survey results. His POV is anthropological, looking at online communications with regard to winemaking, and he notes that most of us feel like a community. It's a short paper (12 pages) and is focused on our interactions, not winemaking, but it's an interesting read.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Everyone here is pretty open about what they do. Who would we be competing with? And we want you and us to drink better wine.
For kits, try some things. Yeast is cheap at a local wine supply, and I always get a few packs to go into free shipping territory online. ScottLabs handbook is great reading about 'what does what', and what yeasts to try with your variety. I like spicy, sometimes acidic wines. I have used Lalvin RC212 for Pinot Noir, along with Enoferm Assmanhausen. Mangrove Jack/ Vintners Harvest R56 and Assmanhausen on heavy reds, really liked the results. Used them on blackberry wine as well, and liked that. CR51 I used, have not tried final wine yet as that was only beginning of October. Seemed great on initial rackings for faster drinking. Lalvin 71B and MJ MA33 seemed the same. Not terrifically impressed unless it's with a hybrid grape? Lalvin ICV K1-V1116 I prefer to 1118. Both included in kits, as they are neutral and 'ferment a shoe' type yeasts, pretty bomb proof for the new end user. I did like fruit wines with V1116. Lalvin D47 by mistake- intended for whites but was ok. I don't think anything you try will be awful, just a learning experience and ok wine. If you aren't a fan, blend with something else. One I won't bother with again - RedStar Pasteur Red. Might taste great later, but absolutely terrible at clearing.

Wow, you’re knowledge and experience with yeast is impressive! So it sounds like yeast strains do have significant impact on the wines overall flavor outcome, and by trying different yeasts, I can make the same kit taste totally different? Would you say that’s accurate?

 

[franc1969]

Wow, you’re knowledge and experience with yeast is impressive! So it sounds like yeast strains do have significant impact on the wines overall flavor outcome, and by trying different yeasts, I can make the same kit taste totally different? Would you say that’s accurate?

I've never done a kit- went crazy on juice buckets and have tried a few from fresh grape. I may need to stop, I don't drink that fast! There were definitely differences in buckets I split between yeasts, and although I blended later, I've figured out what 1 or 3 I like from what shops say will work. For meads I made one big batch of must, tried different yeasts on smaller batches, and they were -seriously- different wines. Good way to try it if you want- split your kit into 4 liter batches to compare yeasts.
And I haven't even started with trying MLF. I want to try PN4, but much too large a package is all I've found. It happened on some wine spontaneously, most I added kmeta early.

 

[Swedeman]

One I won't bother with again - RedStar Pasteur Red. Might taste great later, but absolutely terrible at clearing.

I haven't heard that problem before with Pasteur red. Anyone else having the same experience? I have used it twice but haven't had any clearing problems.

 

[mainshipfred]

I've never done a kit- went crazy on juice buckets and have tried a few from fresh grape. I may need to stop, I don't drink that fast! There were definitely differences in buckets I split between yeasts, and although I blended later, I've figured out what 1 or 3 I like from what shops say will work. For meads I made one big batch of must, tried different yeasts on smaller batches, and they were -seriously- different wines. Good way to try it if you want- split your kit into 4 liter batches to compare yeasts.
And I haven't even started with trying MLF. I want to try PN4, but much too large a package is all I've found. It happened on some wine spontaneously, most I added kmeta early.

What about your peach, you had multiple with that as well didn't you. I split mine into 5 batches and they not only taste different but are different colors as well. I'll show you when you get your skins.

 

[mainshipfred]

I haven't heard that problem before with Pasteur red. Anyone else having the same experience? I have used it twice but haven't had any clearing problems.

You possibly misunderstood. It wasn't clearing she had a problem with but the taste after it cleared.

 

[Swedeman]

You possibly misunderstood. It wasn't clearing she had a problem with but the taste after it cleared.

Yeah, I did. Thanks for clearing that up! ;-) Not always easy to be an ESL speaker. (not sure I would say English is my second or even third language).

 

[franc1969]

You possibly misunderstood. It wasn't clearing she had a problem with but the taste after it cleared.

No, taste is probably fine - it won't clear. But I am comparing to some very fast clearing/ flocculating yeasts. Might be something that I am doing? Or just the batch of yeast.

What about your peach, you had multiple with that as well didn't you. I split mine into 5 batches and they not only taste different but are different colors as well. I'll show you when you get your skins.

Peach I did use four yeasts in four batches. Premier Rouge is the one that won't clear. QA23 was almost immediate, D47 and Cotes des blancs needed lots of degassing and they dropped. I put the same amount of pectinase in all. Premier Rouge with Pinot Noir also took forever to clear.

 

[mainshipfred]

No, taste is probably fine - it won't clear. But I am comparing to some very fast clearing/ flocculating yeasts. Might be something that I am doing? Or just the batch of yeast.

Peach I did use four yeasts in four batches. Premier Rouge is the one that won't clear. QA23 was almost immediate, D47 and Cotes des blancs needed lots of degassing and they dropped. I put the same amount of pectinase in all. Premier Rouge with Pinot Noir also took forever to clear.

Maybe I need to take an ESL class, totally misread it.

 

[Mario Dinis]

I haven't heard that problem before with Pasteur red. Anyone else having the same experience? I have used it twice but haven't had any clearing problems.

I started winemaking with it and didn't have problems.

 

[Vern]

I haven't heard that problem before with Pasteur red. Anyone else having the same experience? I have used it twice but haven't had any clearing problems.

I used Pasture Red for 5 years with cold hardy hybrids. No problems at all.

 

[Bmd2k1]

Just a bit over 1year into wine making and I've used EC1118 for all but one red w/o any issues. I tried RC212 for a Chilean Triple Red plus the recommended nutrient protocol & it took extra "coaxing" to finally finish at .996. (Not sure at this point if the extra effort was worth it...) I'm thinking about trying Avante this year arltleast once

For my Chardonnay & Rose´ used D47 -- which has been my fav for hard ciders.

Cheers!

 

[justsgm]

My go to red wine yeast is D254.

 

[winemaker81]

Just a bit over 1year into wine making and I've used EC1118 for all but one red w/o any issues.

Your success is not a surprise. If I had to choose one yeast to use the remainder of my winemaking career, I'd choose EC-1118.

If given free choice, I'd choose anything except EC-1118.

That's not a knock against EC-1118. IMO it's the multi-purpose yeast. It will ferment a rock or a shoe if given the opportunity. High sugar, low/high acid, low/high temperature?? It doesn't care. If you're having a fermentation problem -- re-inoculate with EC-1118. This is at least one of the reasons most kit vendors include EC-1118. It's a good idea to keep a packet in the fridge for an emergency.

At the same time, whatever you're fermenting, there is at least one yeast better suited for it.

I love threads like this. As I'm wont to say, pay attention to why people make their decisions. That helps us decide which of the many valid answers we should use.

 

[MisterEd]

As others have suggested Lalvin Bourgovin RC-212 is a very reliable red performer. I prep it with some GoFerm and then a day or two later pitch some FermAid. Watch your temp differential and keep the must temp and yeast temp fairly well matched to avoid any thermal shock.

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Really enjoyed all the input in this thread and others. Based upon all the insights gathered, I started my primary on a WE Priv Res Lodi Cab Sauv tonight.

Here’s what I did (I’m going for a bold, dry Cab)

7.5 g Go ferm
6 g Avante yeast
6 g OptiRed
.45 g Llalzyme EX-V
1/2 cup raisins (added to the provided kit skins)
Added the oak dust and the oak cubes into primary. (Probably add more during bulk age too)

I’ll hit it tomorrow with 3 g Fermaid K and 7.8 g FT Rouge Tannin then let it cook until 1.05 then hit it again with 3 g Fermaid K. Then seal it up at 1.01 SG. I plan on doing an 8 week EM and 9 month Bulk age on this one.

Here’s the one question I have: starting OG was 1.074, it felt low to me (kit instructions were looking for 1.08 to 1.1 OG, so I add 2 cups sugar and got it to 1.086 and (was this the right approach?) Hope I haven’t screwed it up yet

 

[Swedeman]

Here’s the one question I have: starting OG was 1.074, it felt low to me (kit instructions were looking for 1.08 to 1.1 OG, so I add 2 cups sugar and got it to 1.086 and (was this the right approach?)

When did you measure the OG? The skin pack increases the OG quite a bit. I too have had the "oh, only 1,07-ish" to end up with 1,095-ish. It takes quite some stirring and/or time for sugar in the skin pack to get into the must. I know that some wait to the next day before adding the yeast (to get a proper reading of the OG).
Having said that, There worst thing that could happen is that you will have of 1,100-ish instead of 1,097-ish..
Good luck with the kit!

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Measured OG before adding the skins as the kit instructed. I’ll take another reading today after giving it a good stir, thx swedeman

 

[Swedeman]

Measured OG before adding the skins as the kit instructed.

Have you misread the instructions? This is how the instructions for WE wine kits with grape skins look like:

1.5 Add Grape Skins. To do this, sanitize the included muslin bag by dipping it into your sulphite solution. The included sulphite/sorbate packet is not used for this purpose. (Visit www.winemakerschool.com for making a sulphite solution). Rinse thoroughly. Line a clean/sanitized 5 L (20 cup) container with the muslin bag. Open grape skin cap or cut along the bottom of the bag and squeeze grape skins into the muslin-lined container. Rinse out grape skin bag with 250 mL (1 cup) of water and add to container. Pull the sides of the muslin bag up and tie with a single knot. Place bag of grape skins in primary fermenter along with any juice left in the container.
1.6 If your kit contains Oak Chips or Granular Oak, stir in now. If your kit contains oak cubes, they will be added at a later stage.
1.7 Stir vigorously for 3-4 minutes and take S.G. reading immediately. If S.G. is not in range, wait 10 minutes and repeat stirring. See General Information for details.

Or does your instruction differ from this?

 

[She’sgonnakillme]

Good grief! Yes you are right I did

Oh well, the SG this morning is 1.09 regardless, so it’s probably worked out anyway. 2 cups of sugar isn’t a lot, so that’s the good news I guess