Importance of pH

[wineforfun]

Couple of thoughts or more like questions on pH. Thanks to JimmyT on here, I have purchased a pH tester. With that said, I started thinking about what the real importance of checking it is.
Say a person is making wine(non-grape, mostly country fruit and dragon blood-type) that will be consumed in 6-18mos. time, with an ABV of 12-13%, does it really matter if the pH reading is low(2.5) or high(4.5)?
Also, does a low or high pH impact flavor or moreso, how does it impact it? I would think that would be up to each individual as maybe some like their wine with alot of acid in them and some may like them with hardly any at all.
I know there is a correlation between pH and SO2 levels but was just curious about the above or any other thoughts you may have. I read the tutorial on pH on here but didn't really see any specifics.
Thanks.

 

[BernardSmith]

I would love to hear what others with far more experience on this forum think about the issue of pH. When I first started making wine I thought pH was very important to carefully measure but I have come to the conclusion that my concern with pH is really only when it is likely to be too low for the yeast and so is likely to create a stalled fermentation. But typically - meads being the exception - most fruits I work with are going to fall nicely within the range that yeast prefer. I no longer simply add acid blend before the fermentation has ceased so I am not helping to create a problem of too low a pH.

Even as to the relationship between pH and the need for free SO2 to act as an anti oxidant, truth is I don't have any equipment to measure the SO2 in the wines before I add additional K-meta. I therefore use Campden tabs and assume that the residue of K-meta I use to sanitize my bottles will be enough to help preserve my wines... but that said, since I make only small batches (1- 3 gallons typically, and 5 gallons if I am intending to give those bottles to friends and colleagues as gifts) I am not expecting to have to keep bottles around for more than two or three years...

 

[Turock]

If you don't have enough acid in fruit wines, they just taste kind of blah. Because many people like these wines with some sweetness on them, there's nothing nicer than drinking them with a good balance between acid and sweetness. As with everything--not enough isn't good and neither is too much. Adjust the acid where you want it, balanced out with the amount of sweetness that you like.

 

[wineforfun]

I would love to hear what others with far more experience on this forum think about the issue of pH. When I first started making wine I thought pH was very important to carefully measure but I have come to the conclusion that my concern with pH is really only when it is likely to be too low for the yeast and so is likely to create a stalled fermentation. But typically - meads being the exception - most fruits I work with are going to fall nicely within the range that yeast prefer. I no longer simply add acid blend before the fermentation has ceased so I am not helping to create a problem of too low a pH.

Even as to the relationship between pH and the need for free SO2 to act as an anti oxidant, truth is I don't have any equipment to measure the SO2 in the wines before I add additional K-meta. I therefore use Campden tabs and assume that the residue of K-meta I use to sanitize my bottles will be enough to help preserve my wines... but that said, since I make only small batches (1- 3 gallons typically, and 5 gallons if I am intending to give those bottles to friends and colleagues as gifts) I am not expecting to have to keep bottles around for more than two or three years...

This is almost exactly how I am conducting things. I mostly make only 2 gal. batches, unless I get antsy and do a kit(which I have done only two). Although, I am adding acid blend up front but have yet to have any issues with fermentation.
I also don't have any equipment to measure SO2 but assumed being my wine is consumed within 6-12mos. typically, it really isn't an issue.

I would like to know however, if I am adding too much k-meta along the way, ie: rackings, etc. what does adding too much k-meta do to the taste/profile of a wine?

 

[salcoco]

the lower the ph the more acid the wine. best check is with taste. have a wine with ph at 4.5 taste , add tartaric acid until ph is 3.3 taste. add more acid until ph is 2.5 taste. which one do you like?
best range for fermentation and taste profiles is a ph of 3.3 to 3.6, but there are exceptions.

 

[barbiek]

I'm not understanding the acid methodology for instance I only have the ph strips, got a ph tester a simple ATC but not sure how to store it so I have never used it. It just says not to use distilled or deionized water to store it. And if the acid read high what do I add to lower it? And vise versa making mostly fruit wines

Thanks

 

[BernardSmith]

Is ATC automatic temperature calibration? I don't know anything about temp calibration with pH.
For storage, I generally keep the probe submerged in tap water held by the rubber sheaf that protects the tip then I calibrate mine each time I use it with some calibrated liquid (pH 4, 7 and 11). Since I don't view my wine making as akin to a science experiment with publishable data my accuracy and tolerances are pretty basic as is the reliability of my equipment. I am looking for ball park estimates. Is the pH around 3.5 (OK ) or around 3 (a concern ) or around 4 (a concern). To increase the acidity (reduce pH) I will add acid blend and to decrease acidity (raise the pH) I will add K-carbonate. (The latter I don't really want to add too much of and so might look for some additional fruit that I think of as reducing acidity - bananas (because they have fewer acids so redress the balance rather than act as an alkali to remove acidity)).

 

[JohnT]

IMHO, it all depends.. You need to take the whole picture into account..

1) type of wine (white, fruit, red?)
2) the amount of time you want to store the wine
3) VS how far off your PH happens to be
4) the wine's ABV
5) The current amount of free SO2
6) exactly HOW the wine is stored (temp, volume, closure, etc)

When you take the above into account, you can judge just how important the PH happens to be (given each unique situation). In the end, however, PH the above only reduces risk of disaster when proper PH is not maintained.

My philosophy is this.. Anything that I can do to reduce the risk of a potential wine disaster is well worth the effort. This includes maintaining a proper PH level.

 

[winemaker_3352]

JohnT is correct - there are a lot of things to consider when adjusting your PH.

To get a well balanced wine check those points and also consider if you plan to sweeten the wine - sugar and acidity play a part in the balance of the wine as well.

 

[wineforfun]

JohnT is correct - there are a lot of things to consider when adjusting your PH.

To get a well balanced wine check those points and also consider if you plan to sweeten the wine - sugar and acidity play a part in the balance of the wine as well.

Shouldn't your wine be around 3.5 essentially, whether you are backsweetening or not?

 

[winemaker_3352]

Shouldn't your wine be around 3.5 essentially, whether you are backsweetening or not?

Yes. But 6g/l TA will taste different than 7g/l TA if you sweeten or make it dry..

 

[Turock]

Why should the PH be 3.5? What about white wines that may be around 3.2? I think you have to adjust the acidity for what you're working with and how much acid you like. If you're a dry drinker of fruit wines, then you might want the PH somewhat higher because you're not using any sugar to balance the acidity. This is a very subjective thing, and it is often best not to get too hung up on the numbers.

 

[PhilDarby]

Although I check ph here but only recently as most of the fruit I ferment ie grape and apple tend to be in the ball park anyway, from what I gather white wine generally has a desiable starting ph of around 3.2, red around 3.4 ish.

PH and final sg and other factors tend to probably come into their own if you are trying to replicate a favourate flavour, or, if your a commercial brewery, sometimes I deliberately don't want to test because I want an uncomplicated ferment with its own characteristic, if u make them all the same ph and the same final sg etc your basically cloning the statistics on your known wine, me sometimes I don't want to do that because, I like experimenting with more than a known taste, well up to a point.

So in short if your in the ball park with ph its probably going to be fine, as long as there is some acid in there basically below a ph of around 3.8 ish and not overly acidic ie below ph 3 your very likely to be fine. Taste is subjective anyway, to individuals.

So I wouldn't get to hung up on it because of that, if its in the ball park don't worry basically, remember wine varies a bit form year to year u know, who knows if u leave a specific fruit alone, that u would have otherwise tweaked, u may well be missing out on a classic wine.

 

[JohnT]

Phil,

I hear what your saying, but I have to say that PH is a lot more important that you are expressing.

Taste is important, but you need to weigh that against the risk you might be taking by not maintaining the proper PH.

Like I said in my earlier post, test your PH several times, take all factors into account, weight the risk you currently are at, and adjust as you see fit.

One last thing I need to add is this.. Just because a fruit "tends to be in ball park" does not mean that the PH will be there every time. It does no harm to measure PH, but it does do harm to maintain an inappropriate PH!

Do not be one of those poor winemakers that are sobbing "why was I so lazy?" as they pour a ruined batch of wine down the sink.

 

[wineforfun]

Ok, so I put everything together for my blueberry wine(used frozen blueberries from store) and my initial pH was 3.67.
Ferment is on day 2 so I assume I should check pH again when ferment is finished or when I rack to carboy?

 

[Fsim]

Take a look at these manuals for Red and White Winemaking. There is some great information on ph levels and the reasons why your ph should not be at the lower end ie 3.2 etc. for red and white winemaking. These are written by some of the top winemakers in the U.S. Not to say there isn't some very knowledgeable individuals on this forum. Balancing your wine is one of the most critical aspects of winemaking for bacteria prevention and taste. So maintaining proper ph and acid levels along with a hundred other little items help in making good wine.

http://morewinemaking.com/content/winemanuals