Is this MLF Finished or Not?

[jsbeckton]

I coiniculated VP41 about a month ago and have done a few tests. It’s still seems like a faint spot is left but it doesn’t seem to have changed over the last few weeks. What say you?

 

[Johnd]

I coiniculated VP41 about a month ago and have done a few tests. It’s still seems like a faint spot is left but it doesn’t seem to have changed over the last few weeks. What say you?

Looks pretty clean to me. Give it 2 - 3 more weeks before you sulfite and move on.

 

[jsbeckton]

Looks pretty clean to me. Give it 2 - 3 more weeks before you sulfite and move on.

Thanks, will do. Just a bit anxious without it being sulfited yet. It’s also a bit tart with a low pH so want to cold stabilize as well but will keep it warm to let the MLB do anything else they can for another few weeks.

 

[Johnd]

Thanks, will do. Just a bit anxious without it being sulfited yet. It’s also a bit tart with a low pH so want to cold stabilize as well but will keep it warm to let the MLB do anything else they can for another few weeks.

Have had wines go nearly 5 months with no sulfite, just make sure you’ve eliminated as much air space as you can, and leave the airlock in place as much as you can.

How about some info before you CS your wine. What kind of wine is it, what’s your starting and finishing pH’s and TA’s?

 

[Bubba1]

I just tested my Cab that was co-inoculated with vp-41 and my chronograph looks identical to yours I just racked and sulfited Im sure it will be fine I too get antsy when its left unprotected.

 

[mainshipfred]

I don't co-inoculate but my minimum time frame is 3 months, fully topped with an airlock.

 

[stickman]

@jsbeckton You may want to keep your chromatograms off of the drywall, the gypsum can affect the color.

 

[jsbeckton]

@jsbeckton You may want to keep your chromatograms off of the drywall, the gypsum can affect the color.

Thanks but its actually on a plastic table (that might look like drywall ).

 

[jsbeckton]

How about some info before you CS your wine. What kind of wine is it, what’s your starting and finishing pH’s and TA’s?

Good point. Well as you may recall I over-reacted to what I thought was too high of a pH and low TA in this thread:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/first-all-grape-wine-ta-ph-question.69104/

So I ended up adding acid (and acid blend instead of tartaric acid to boot). After I added the acid and stirred everything up I was seeing pH of 3.4 and a TA of 0.67 which seemed good but after fermentation it was measuring at pH=3.2 and TA =0.98. I have calibrated my meter and done the acid test several times and getting the same result. Its also really bright pink which I know is due to the low pH.

It tastes tart so I was hoping that maybe MLF would have dropped the acid a bit but it hasn't changed at all (numbers still pH=3.2 and TA=9.8). I actually have some ACIDEX Super-K but really want to avoid using it because I wasn't impressed with the results the last time that I did.

I have a chest freezer with a temp controller so was considering putting the wine in there at ~25F for a few months to see if that helps. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[stickman]

If you CS the wine now, you'll end up with a pH lower than 3.2. Bench trials with potassium bicarbonate followed by CS are probably needed to determine what the effect will be.

 

[Johnd]

Good point. Well as you may recall I over-reacted to what I thought was too high of a pH and low TA in this thread:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/first-all-grape-wine-ta-ph-question.69104/

So I ended up adding acid (and acid blend instead of tartaric acid to boot). After I added the acid and stirred everything up I was seeing pH of 3.4 and a TA of 0.67 which seemed good but after fermentation it was measuring at pH=3.2 and TA =0.98. I have calibrated my meter and done the acid test several times and getting the same result. Its also really bright pink which I know is due to the low pH.

It tastes tart so I was hoping that maybe MLF would have dropped the acid a bit but it hasn't changed at all (numbers still pH=3.2 and TA=9.8). I actually have some ACIDEX Super-K but really want to avoid using it because I wasn't impressed with the results the last time that I did.

I have a chest freezer with a temp controller so was considering putting the wine in there at ~25F for a few months to see if that helps. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

What @stickman said is dead on, and right where I was headed. Don’t do anything until you have good readings to work from, and by that, I mean degassed samples with your calibrated meter. Carbonated must will not give true readings.

If indeed you need to drop acid, K bicarbonate is the option to explore at the appropriate time.

 

[jsbeckton]

If you CS the wine now, you'll end up with a pH lower than 3.2. Bench trials with potassium bicarbonate followed by CS are probably needed to determine what the effect will be.

Interesting. Was thinking that CS would cause tartaric acid to drop out and raise pH. What is going on that will lower pH? Thanks for the warning!

I’m working on degassing now to try to ensure that’s not throwing my reading off.

 

[sour_grapes]

Interesting. Was thinking that CS would cause tartaric acid to drop out and raise pH. What is going on that will lower pH?

Here is a good read for you: http://www.moundtop.com/pdf/Winemaking-TartrateInstability-rev2.pdf

 

[cmason1957]

Good point. Well as you may recall I over-reacted to what I thought was too high of a pH and low TA in this thread:

https://www.winemakingtalk.com/threads/first-all-grape-wine-ta-ph-question.69104/

So I ended up adding acid (and acid blend instead of tartaric acid to boot). After I added the acid and stirred everything up I was seeing pH of 3.4 and a TA of 0.67 which seemed good but after fermentation it was measuring at pH=3.2 and TA =0.98. I have calibrated my meter and done the acid test several times and getting the same result. Its also really bright pink which I know is due to the low pH.

It tastes tart so I was hoping that maybe MLF would have dropped the acid a bit but it hasn't changed at all (numbers still pH=3.2 and TA=9.8). I actually have some ACIDEX Super-K but really want to avoid using it because I wasn't impressed with the results the last time that I did.

I have a chest freezer with a temp controller so was considering putting the wine in there at ~25F for a few months to see if that helps. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

I'm a little surprised nobody else mentioned this. You said added acid blend, the malic acid in acid blend may not be able to be metabolized into lactic acid. Some can be and some can't be.

 

[Johnd]

I'm a little surprised nobody else mentioned this. You said added acid blend, the malic acid in acid blend may not be able to be metabolized into lactic acid. Some can be and some can't be.

Look at my post #7 from the original thread, we covered that ground......

 

[jsbeckton]

I'm a little surprised nobody else mentioned this. You said added acid blend, the malic acid in acid blend may not be able to be metabolized into lactic acid. Some can be and some can't be.

Yes, I was happy to see that it seems to show pretty clear even though I added the wrong acid. Also, no hint of vinegar or anything like was mentioned as a possible consequence if I moved forward with MLF like I did.

 

[cmason1957]

Look at my post #7 from the original thread, we covered that ground......

Sorry. Didn't go that far back in the history of this thread.

 

[jsbeckton]

Ok, so I fully degassed a sample and unfortunately the pH is still 3.2. Should I also do the TA test again or is it safe to say that I’m going to have to reduce the acid?

 

[jsbeckton]

Here is a good read for you: http://www.moundtop.com/pdf/Winemaking-TartrateInstability-rev2.pdf

Thanks, Interesting read. The acid reduction powder says that after it’s added that I should CS for 2 weeks so this seems counterproductive to this?

 

[Johnd]

St

Ok, so I fully degassed a sample and unfortunately the pH is still 3.2. Should I also do the TA test again or is it safe to say that I’m going to have to reduce the acid?

Still check the TA, if nothing else, it’ll give you a reference point for future endeavors.