Just bought wine grape juice for the first time!

[cmason1957]

I generally just set the lid on my pail or put a towel over the top and secure that down. I stir at least everyday, but more like three or four times a day. I would rehydrate the yeast with just water, the nutrient you have is probably just DHP, which is better than nothing, but not for starting out the yeast. I would add about 1/2 of whatever amount is called for after 24 hours, then the rest in about 3 days. But that is just me.

 

[phasee]

Excellent. Yeast is pitched...when re-hydrating I didn't notice much foaming, if any. Hopefully it's still good. I'm using Lalvin RC212 yeast, and I have read that it doesn't produce much in the way of foam.

I've ordered Fermaid-K. It's not going to arrive until the end of the week, at the earliest. Is it a big deal if I have to wait to feed the must?

Also ordered Wyeast WY4114 Er1a Malolactic culture, which has a tolerance for lower pH's.

 

[Stressbaby]

I've never had trouble with RC-212 but I always use Go-Ferm and Fermaid-K. I've read it can be prickly nutrient-wise, it has a high N requirement.

Thread? Thread.

Chart? Chart.

I'd think about bumping the nutrient dose a little bit. You typically don't want to dose nutrient beyond 1/2 or 2/3 sugar depletion, so end of the week might be too late for the Fermaid-K. Watch for H2S.

 

[phasee]

I hope that my order is shipped today, so that I can receive it by tomorrow. I guess even adding the Fermaid-K on Wednesday may be too late? At least I will have it to feed when 1/3 of the sugar has depleted.

I think I have also realised that I will probably have too much SO2 to complete a MLF, having added 5 campden tablets before pitching the yeast...there would be no way to rectify this? Would I be better waiting till the fermentation is finished, re-racking and leaving in the carboy for a couple of months, in the hope that a natural MLF takes place?

I apologise for the amount of questions I am asking. I want to learn and make the best wine I possibly can. Now I will know for next time about MLF and SO2!

 

[Stressbaby]

@phasee, these are good questions, don't apologize.

There are folks with way more experience than I have so my word on this is not the last. But I think you are going to be OK for MLF. I don't think it is uncommon practice to dose around 50ppm prior to crush. Much of that SO2 will blow off during alcoholic fermentation. So as long as you go sequential (and don't try to co-inoculate), I think you'll be OK. If it were me I would wait til AF is done, rack off the gross lees (if you have any with a juice pail), then inoculate the MLB. Acti-ML and OptiMalo are good insurance policy for the MLF, analogous to GoFerm and Fermaid-K for the yeast, I've always used those. Finally, and I've never done this but some folks like to do it, you can make an MLF starter. Most importantly, keep it warm.

As for yeast nutrient, how much of the standard yeast nutrient have you used so far?

 

[cmason1957]

Adding 5 campden tablets isn't all that much (At least it isn't if this is 5 gallons or so). I would think most of your SO2 will have blown off by the time you are done fermenting. I certainly wouldn't try to coinoculate your ML Bacteria. Press, Rack, let settle for a day or two, rack again, then add you MLB and add some Acti-ML at the same time.

If you have never done a ML before, I doubt that one would start up all by itself. It might, but I would say that odds are against it.

No problems with questions, they are easier to answer now and help you be on the right path, then try to figure out how to fix something after the fact.

 

[phasee]

This information is great, thanks! Happy to hear I can still continue with the MLF.

As for yeast nutrient, how much of the standard yeast nutrient have you used so far?

I have not added any, yet. I was planning to add some of the DAP when I get home later this afternoon (4-5PM ET).

I'll make an order for Acti-ML and Opti-Malo today.

Should I be tasting the grape juice at this point? Or wait until after fermentation?

 

[Ajmassa]

Make sure you get enough acti-ml for however much Ml you buy. 50g needed for 2.5g of ML. And opti is 1g per gal I think.
Just let her go checking SG throughout. Careful they can go quick. I picked up a juice bucket on Saturday. When I went to pitch yeast in Sunday the natural yeast already started but SG hadn't dropped yet still at 1.090. Pitched the yeast with starter.
In 24 hrs I was at 1.030 already!

 

[phasee]

Perfect, I'll continue to monitor SG and stir a couple of times a day.

I have a 125ml of liquid ML culture on it's way.

I am planning to order 50G of Acti-ML, the instruction on the website say: Mix Acti-ML into 5 times its weight in 25C (77F) chlorine-free water. Add your bacterial culture, then wait 15 minutes before adding to the wine. Dosage rate: 0.84g/gal of wine
By my calculations I would need 4-5g of Acti-ML mixed in to 25ml of water for a 5-6 gallon must (Calculations have been wrong in the past).

I also have 60g of Opti-Malo in my cart, ready to order.

 

[Stressbaby]

I was planning to add some of the DAP when I get home later this afternoon (4-5PM ET).

I'll make an order for Acti-ML and Opti-Malo today.

Should I be tasting the grape juice at this point? Or wait until after fermentation?

Regarding the nutrient, I would probably add 1/2 dose of the DAP/nutrient tonight, then 1/2 dose Fermaid K at 1/3 sugar depletion, assuming it arrives on time. Maybe nudge the nutrient up just a little because the yeast is nutrient-needy RC-212. Be alert for any H2S odors.

On occasion when the ferment gets away from me or life gets in the way, I've dosed the second half of the Fermaid-K at 1/2 sugar depletion. Conventional wisdom is to not dose nutrient any later than 2/3 sugar depletion.

I don't taste anything until well after AF or MLF. I use my nose throughout this early part of the process. But you can taste it if you want, it won't hurt you.

 

[Ajmassa]

Acti-ml is based on the amount of ml bacteria. 50g pack you'd use the whole thing if using 2.5g of ML. It all depends on how much ML you use.
You can add too little but not too much. And once the packet is opened it cannot be re-used.
So the one I used (vp-41 2.5g) was good enough for up to 66 gal.
Mixed with 50 g of acti-ml and water. And added 3/4 to my bigger batch and 1/4 to juice pail.

 

[phasee]

A little update:

So my beginning SG was around 1.084 on Monday.

Today (Thursday), SG is 1.040. So, a little over half way.

My delivery with Fermaid-K arrives today, and I know it has been said that it isn't beneficial to feed the yeast after 1/2 the sugar is depleted. But i'm wondering, as it is so close to the halfway mark, if I should introduce the Fermaid-K.

Also, I stated before I am using RC212, and have read that this is a low foaming yeast. Even though I can clearly see the yeast is working, I would say it is not foaming at all, it is more of a 'sizzling'. Would this be considered normal behaviour?

Thanks!

 

[cmason1957]

In my experience RC212 like nutrients, so I would give it some, even though you are at the 1/2 sugar mark. Maybe a third of what you might normally, just to keep the yeast happy. As I recall from back when I used to use it, it doesn't foam much at all, so sizzling is probably normal behavior.

 

[phasee]

I added 1/3 of the Fermaid-K called for, and the fermentation is looking nice and healthy! Thank you to everyone for helping me get started, I have definitely learned a lot in less than a week.

Starting SG was 1.084, sitting at 1.030 right now, and the must temperature has been a steady 75-76F the whole time.

Pretty happy with the progress, and feeling a little more relaxed now that I got the chance to give the yeast some nutrients.

I may have questions regarding MLF, but for now, I'll just enjoy reading the forum.

 

[phasee]

I may be being paranoid, but I think I can detect a faint smell of rotten egg. Only when I take the lid off of the pail, when I try to smell again, I just get alcohol burning the nose.

I'll pay more attention today when I get home. In the event that the smell is there, what is the best way to remedy H2S at this point?

SG is around 1.004 and dropping slowly.

 

[pgentile]

I may be being paranoid, but I think I can detect a faint smell of rotten egg. Only when I take the lid off of the pail, when I try to smell again, I just get alcohol burning the nose.

I think that it is not uncommon to detect some sulfur(rotten egg) smells during primary. My two batches the past weeks had a faint sulphur smell when lifting the towel(lid) at a point during the process. But dissipated quickly and never returned. If it lingers or gets strong then I would worry.

Also are you snapping the lid down or just place loosely on top? If snapping down, don't going forward during primary. During primary a towel as a lid would be better. From my understanding you do want oxygen getting in.

 

[phasee]

I have been snapping the lid on. I will switch it to a towel for the remainder of the primary fermentation.

 

[Ajmassa]

I think that it is not uncommon to detect some sulfur(rotten egg) smells during primary. My two batches the past weeks had a faint sulphur smell when lifting the towel(lid) at a point during the process. But dissipated quickly and never returned. If it lingers or gets strong then I would worry.

Also are you snapping the lid down or just place loosely on top? If snapping down, don't going forward during primary. During primary a towel as a lid would be better. From my understanding you do want oxygen getting in.

Ditto on the sulfur smell. And just like you phasee it quickly smelled like alcohol burning the nose. Had a towel over the batch, but fruit flies were becoming an issue. So I put the brute lid on the can over top the towel, and the next day is when I smelled this. Panic mode.
I'm not sure of the chemical reason, but with no gasses able to escape, I'm assuming this caused it. I stirred up with vigor, put it all through the press, and even funneled to glass to introduce as much o2 as possible. Smell is gone.

 

[phasee]

I stir the juice 2-3 times a day, so this should help the gases escape. I'll keep a nose on it, but given the anecdotal evidence, it shouldn't be anything to worry about thankfully.

 

[Scooter68]

I'm a firm believer in using just a cloth covering - BUT securing it around the edges. Use a tight weave cloth and be sure to tie it on - with a string/cord around the top in the bucket grooves. Loose fitting a lid over a cloth may still leave little folds or gaps.
Anything like a plastic lid can capture gasses that need to vent out. Also if you are going to use a plastic lid in any way, check the substance of that sealing ring in that lid groove If its made of rubber, that could be creating the ugly smell as the gases react with it.