Just started first wine a few questions?

[Grayson99]

Hi,
I have started a 30 bottle beaverdale Shiraz kit. It's been in the primary firmenter for 5 days but only stated bubbling 2 days ago, is this normal?

The kit instructions say rack after 5 days at 1010 reading if not leave in primary firmenter for 15-20. Which is the best method? Do I wait for it to stop bubbling before I rack?

How long does it usually take before airlock stops bubbling?

Thanks

 

[Rice_Guy]

Welcome to WMT
Bubbles are not the best judgment on when you are finished. A cool fermentation will bubble less and take longer. ,,, The hydrometer is preferred with a “finish“ defined as 1.000 or less.

Your kit took three days for obvious bubbling, many ferments will show activity in a day. As a guess you had a low yeast population. This could be a variety of issues as cool temp or the yeast being stressed so the viable count is low. The good news is that it is going. If you wish to follow instructions the times the instructions say ought to be three days slow. ,,, wine is quite forgiving, a slow ferment still makes good wine.

 

[Johnd]

Hi,
I have started a 30 bottle beaverdale Shiraz kit. It's been in the primary firmenter for 5 days but only stated bubbling 2 days ago, is this normal?

The kit instructions say rack after 5 days at 1010 reading if not leave in primary firmenter for 15-20. Which is the best method? Do I wait for it to stop bubbling before I rack?

How long does it usually take before airlock stops bubbling?

Thanks

Yes, it’s normal for it to take a few days to get going, sometimes sooner, sometimes not. A lot depends upon the must and the ambient temps.
As for counting fermentation events in days, forget it, we do things based upon fermentation progress. Fermentation progress varies in time, so the change in Specific Gravity is our yardstick. Let the hydrometer be your guide. Fermentation starts when the SG begins to drop, it ends when SG gets below .998 and doesn’t change for 3 days. Everything else is eye candy. Once fermentation has started and stopped, time becomes your yardstick again.
Monitor your SG, rack below 1.010 as indicated in the instructions, and follow the timelines thereafter. Caution though, most red wines are NOT ready to bottle and drink in a few months.

 

[KCCam]

You didn't mention what your SG is. When asking for help, that is the single most important piece of information to give. Another good number to give is what the SG started at, before fermentation began. And it's best to use the decimal point, so we know that you know how to read the hydrometer. A lot of beginners have trouble with that. It should be given to 3 decimal places, such as 1.010.

The best advice I got was to keep good notes. Record the SG every day so you learn how things normally progress. Take note of the approximate must temperature as well. A 75° must failing to start after 3 days is a lot different than one at 55° failing to start. Notes will help you answer questions you may get from us when you ask for help, and can be very valuable the next time you make a batch.

We also sometimes assume things that might not be true. Most of us use a big, open plastic pail of some sort, without an air lock, as a primary fermenter. Yeast actually needs oxygen at this stage. You mention bubbling in an air lock. Is your must in a glass carboy? Or do you have a plastic lid with a hole cut in it for an air lock?

 

[Scooter68]

My keynote guidance to a newbie.

By no means are these hard fast "Rules" but rather what I believe are best practices for new Fruit wine makers.

Please note that I make Country fruit wines only NOT grape wines. Practices vary, but only slightly .

This is not a detailed list but rather some guidance based on what I have learned:

1) Have 2 Hydrometers, They break easily and if it breaks as you are preparing your wine it forces you to guesstimate or rely on calculations that are tedious and not 100% accurate depending on how much your fruit varies from the 'normal' fruit of that type
2) Have a pH Meter (How expensive is up to you. BUT even the most expensive is worthless if you don't calibrate it properly (So you need those solutions/powder packets)
3) Gather not just 1, 3,5 and/or 6.5 gallon carboys but also gather 1/2 gallon, 16oz, 12 oz glass containers that you can securely put an airlock on. (Hint think recycling centers) Kombucha bottles 16oz work nicely. Odd size containers are very useful in storing or aging smaller quantities of extra wine
4) Check all your additives and make sure you know when to use them and what they do. Avoid products that contains sodium like Sodium Metabisulfite and instead use Potassium Metabisulfite.
5) Start with good quality fruit or wine base - Using pre-prepared "100% Fruit Juices" may not be what you think. Learn to read the list of ingredients. That Cherry Juice may in fact be Grape, Apple, Pear and some Cherry juice. So the result is a blended wine not a 100 Cherry wine in that case. If you know that and are OK with that - go for it. The old phrase "Garbage in Garbage out" applies
6) Oh, and don't skimp on the quantities of fruit. many online recipes will call for 3-4 lbs of fruit per gallon. THAT will give you a very 'light on the palate wine.' Just know that and a be aware. Go in with your eyes open and ready to have fun,.
7) Remember to get good cleaning supplies and know what they do. We Sanitizer not Sterilize our equipment. So the proper products are important and some that sound great can adversely affect your wine. (Bleach - not good to use unless you are going to rinse rinse rinse and then store the cleaned item for a while.
8) Get a couple of really LONG brushes and make sure they will really reach and clean those carboys and buckets.

Ok Enough about gathering equipment - Now on to the wine making:

A) Read a lot on here and good books about home wine making. Look for "Best Practices" guidance and avoid the shortcuts for the first couple of batches
B) AVOID YOUTUBE videos, - they are loaded with unproven 'shortcuts' and outright bad guidance. The few good ones are hard to recognize for a newbie
C) Gather and check your supplies before you start. The only supplies you don't need to have on hand before starting are Bottles, corks, corker and labels
D) TAKE NOTES about all the steps and measurements as you do them
E) Oversize your batches to allow for the loss of volume due to lees. Check on this site for approximate losses folks experience with each type of fruit. That oversizing will provide you a safety margin and provide you additional wine for topping off and a little taste testing along the way to bottling day.
F) Don't rush to pitch the yeast - once you have the wine ready - Let it set overnight if at all possible. If you have properly prepared the wine must it will keep over night easily unless the room is hot. After that overnight wait retake your SG and pH measurements. (TA can be done with pH meter too if you prefer that measurement)
G) DON'T ferment in a carboy, Use food safe plastic bucket and cover it with a cloth cover. You can tie a cord around it if you have nosy pets
H) Stir the must daily for until the SG is approaching 1.020 and Take the SG reading once a day for your first couple of batches - THAT's how you know how well the fermentation is progressing
I) Start with something simple, read about experiences folks have had with that type of wine. For example: Watermelon or persimmon wine are a difficult wines to get right. Blackberry, Apple, Blueberry, are pretty good starting wines. At least be aware of what to expect that may be unique to the wine you want to make.
J) Transfer to a carboy when 2 conditions are met 1) Foaming has died down and the surface is starting to have just scattered collections of foam 2) When the SG is below 1.020 or even 1.000. If one of these conditions is not met there is a significant risk of spill out of foam after you rack the wine in to the carboy, Know as a foam fountain or wine volcano. Not fun cleaning that up and it's a waste of wine. (NOTE: Some folks call this a "Secondary fermentation or Second phase of fermentation.)
K) Fermentation takes as long as it takes. When the SG reading hasn't changed for 3 days your ferment is either finished (If below 1.000 or stuck./stalled if above that number.
L) Once fermentation has finished get your wine off of the gross lees (Unless you are doing a surlei ferment. If you don't know what that is, you probably should not be attempting it yet.
M) You get it off the lees by racking into another carboy and putting in your proper dosage of K-Meta into the carboy first. If you want to dissolve it first fine, a couple of ounces of wine or water works great. Normally the action of the wine flowing into the carboy will dissolve and mix it into the wine as it goes.
N) The above was your first post fermentation racking and you will need to rack again normally in 10 days to 3 weeks to get rid of the remain large quantity of lees.
O) Rack the wine every 3 month after your second racking and at each racking add the correct dosage of K-Meta
P) Now you are into aging the wine. Except for white wines and some of the more delicate fruit wines aging in bulk is commonly done for 9-12 months.
Q) Questions? - Hey this is the place to ask and try to stay ahead of the game. Asking about when to pitch the yeast after you have already prepared the wine, might lead to issues. We love to help folks but this forum is not a "Monitored" 24/7 help desk. It might take a day or two for answers. Rmember to browse around on this site. There are many sections including the Country Fruit Winemaking and the Recipes forums. Scads of information and not that hard to locate with a little time. On and one last thing about time. Wine making is a hobby for those willing to play the Long-game. Great wine doesn't happen in 6 weeks. (If you don't have patience - this is probably not the hobby for you)

I'll end this epic post with my personal take on how wine progresses:
At 6 weeks - yeah it's "Wine"
At 6 -9 months - You can see it's potential now. (Ah it's young but starting to resemble something good)
At 12 months - Enjoyable (Ok That's pretty doggone decent)
At 18-24 months - Something you can be proud to share ( I shoulda made more of this - Hey Bill want to tastes something really good
After 3 years - WOW This is GREAT (NOBODY is getting any of this unless they are really REALLY good friends.)

 

[KCCam]

My keynote guidance to a newbie.

@Grayson99, I highly recommend you print that out, and put it in the binder you will start for taking notes. In fact, if that post isn't a sticky, it should be. @Scooter68 knows what he's talking about, and I believe he's made an excellent compilation of the tips he's handed out over the years. He states that these are best practices for fruit (country) wines right at the beginning, but they apply to grape wine just as well. That information may appear daunting at first, especially as a beginner, but read the entire post. Don't worry about the stuff you don't understand, for now.

B) AVOID YOUTUBE videos,

Amen! Somehow, a video seems to make anyone appear like they're an authority on any topic.

One further piece of advice I'd like to add: as a beginner, if you can, make a few kit wines by following the directions to the letter. Not only will Scooter's post help you understand what you are doing, and why, but making a few kits will also help you understand everything in Scooter's post. And if something does go wrong, most manufacturers will send you a free replacement kit -- if you've followed their instructions. Otherwise, you're on your own. Once you have a few under your belt, there's a wealth of information here on how you can tweak them to make them better, or how to make your own wine from your own ingredients.

Oh, and sorry Scooter, but I have to slightly disagree with your statement:

Wine making is a hobby for those willing to play the Long-game. Great wine doesn't happen in 6 weeks. (If you don't have patience - this is probably not the hobby for you)

It's true that great wine doesn't happen in 6 weeks - no question about it - but you can enjoy this hobby without making great wine. If you make a 4-week kit, and enjoy drinking the result the day it's bottled, then this hobby is also for you. However, if you do have patience, then this hobby will be much more rewarding, and if you don't, you may find it difficult and frustrating finding help when you have trouble with a batch. Just my 2 cents.

 

[KCCam]

Ok Enough about gathering equipment - Now on to the wine making:

@Scooter68, I'd just like to clarify a couple of things in your steps G - N.
You say in step N that step M is "the first racking," but in step J you racked from the primary fermenter into a secondary fermenter, while fermentation was still ongoing (SG 1.000 to 1.020, and still bubbling). I think this confuses a lot of beginners, because they read that you should add K-meta "at every racking," but that doesn't apply to the "racking" mentioned in step J, correct? Also, in step G you say not to ferment in a glass carboy, but this only applies to the very active first stage of fermentation that produces a lot of foam and actually requires oxygen. Once that dies down (the yeast no longer multiplying, only small bubbles and no foam), glass is fine. This is what the kits I've made refer to as "secondary fermentation," although that's a misnomer (it's really still primary fermentation in a secondary vessel).

So, if I'm correct:
J) gets your wine off the gross lees by racking into a secondary vessel (carboy) where fermentation continues (no K-meta). Some people skip this step, and let the fermentation complete in the primary.
L) is when fermentation is 100% complete, or as close as it's going to get.
M) The wine is racked off of the lees that have dropped in the secondary (I believe these are fine lees, see: Gross Lees vs. Fine Lees – Winemaker's Academy), as they are mostly dead yeast cells, not organic matter from the fruit that was left behind in J. This is where K-meta is added for the first time, and where the wine begins to clear and age.
N) The above {M} was your first racking {after fermentation completed -- but could be your second (or more) time you've racked the wine from one vessel to another}.

If I'm wrong in any of that, please correct me. I am the first to admit I am still a beginner too.

 

[Scooter68]

Got it I'll edit that and make it clear. DONE WITH UPDATES - Made a couple of changes to make this a bit more clear for everyone. Added a note, and then changed the first use of term "Racking" to the word "Transfer" Hopefully that will make things a bit more clear.

As to the lees, yeah, a lot depends on how fast that ferment happens and how the fruit was handled. If the ferment finishes in the bucket then you are actually Racking into a carboy and adding K-Meta and that becomes the "First Racking." Further if you had fruit loose in the fermentation bucket, that first racking might still snag some of the fruit (Last batch of blackberry did that to me) so you could still have some fruit and gross lees going into the carboy that first transfer.

The post was just sort of a one sitting post trying to walk through things. Naturally it can be improved and I hope folks who find it useful will add their own input to it before "Committing it" to a binder or trying to go step by step. In part it's to fill in the information that's missing on some step-by-step instructions I've seen. The trick is to balance getting too detailed and assuming folks know the basics already.

Of course I did a number on myself by posting essentially the same thing on the Country Fruit Wine Making forum too. So I have to update in two places if I make a change. Of course after the site does it's lock-in of a post then I can't make any changes to it.

 

[Scooter68]

KCCAM SAID "Oh, and sorry Scooter, but I have to slightly disagree with your statement:

It's true that great wine doesn't happen in 6 weeks - no question about it - but you can enjoy this hobby without making great wine. If you make a 4-week kit, and enjoy drinking the result the day it's bottled, then this hobby is also for you. However, if you do have patience, then this hobby will be much more rewarding, and if you don't, you may find it difficult and frustrating finding help when you have trouble with a batch. Just my 2 cents."

Not a problem - plenty of room for different views. I used the term "Light on the palate" instead of saying a "Weak wine" Some folks like more subtle flavors and some like the flavor of a fruit wine to be an "In your Face, Grab your taste buds and shake them experience."

 

[hounddawg]

well all very good vintners,
but first a ferment needs lots of oxygen , so no airlock, a hydrometer is a must, that will tell you when to rack from ferment open top container to secondarily carboy, during ferment you need to stir at least once daily or better yet twice daily even better, till hydrometer is down between a SG of 1.000 to .996 then rack to carboy and airlock,
Dawg

 

[JohnW]

The one thing I do when I want an early drinker, say a few months rather than years, is add less oak. I'll typically add 1/2 or less of the packet provided and if necessary add some finishing tannins. To me it seems that the initial oak flavor takes a significant time to mellow. I'm all about instant (or at least early) gratification.