K-meta good enough for residual sugar?

[coconutw]

Hi,

Do I need to use anything more than just potassium metabisulfite when stabilizing a mead that has not been back-sweetened, but does have some residual sugar?

Recently, I've been doing meads with D47 and enough sugar to get it to 13.5%. Batches are tending to finish primary fermentation with a little bit of residual sugar. Not a lot, but definitely some. We're talking like the amount you'd get from an off-the-shelf cabernet that's not completely dry. I like this amount of sweetness. I'm thinking to let is sit for a month or two, rack off any additional lees that settle out, and hit it with some k-meta, and then bottle.

Is this a reasonable approach? I know that theoretically, the fermentation could restart, blah blah blah. In theory, yeast can do all sorts of things. I've never heard anyone try this, so I'm really interested in real life experiences here. I'm honestly interested if anyone can say something like "Well in theory, this isn't a great idea, but in reality, this will probably always work." or "No, this actually won't probably always work. Here's what happened to me.", or whatever else.

 

[winemaker81]

Welcome to WMT!

D-47 is rated for 14% ABV, and you're close to that. Rating are calculated in laboratory conditions, and every batch is different as yeast is a living entity, so it's probably done.

How old is the mead? If it's under 6 months old, I'd not bottle without sorbate. Actually, I'd bulk age longer to see what happens.

If it's a year old? It's probably not going to continue to ferment.

There's a lot of "probably"s in there. My comfort with bottling without sorbate depends on the age.

 

[coconutw]

Thanks!

I guess I didn't realize it was a thing to bulk age longer than a couple months. Is it common for fermentation to keep going really slowly after things have cleared? I guess I thought that after a couple months, pretty much all fermentations are going to be done (except for that malolactic whatever thing).

If its common for this kind of stuff to keep going real slowly, I'd rather meta+sorbate it now. I like the flavor a lot. Gosh this feels like a major life decision...

 

[winemaker81]

IME most ferments complete in 5-10 days.

In your situation, you have a yeast that is rated for just above your current ABV, and it's also my experience that yeast slows down when it reaches its ABV tolerance. Yeast poisons its own environment with its waste (alcohol), so it makes sense.

Another option is to make a starter with EC-1118, which will complete the fermentation if D47 cannot.

I don't bottle before 4 months. I currently have a Metheglin/Cyser in bulk that will be a year old in a few weeks. My son & I will bottle it tomorrow. IME wine-strength meads benefit from longer bulk aging, and longer time in the bottle. My 2018 is aging nicely ... but I'm down to less than a case, so it will be gone far too soon. I may hang onto a bottle or 2 for another 4 to 5 years.

 

[Ckent]

Your plan sounds pretty solid. I’ve done something similar with my meads. Using potassium metabisulfite should help with stabilizing it, but I’d also recommend adding potassium sorbate. I’ve found that sorbate really helps keep things from fermenting further, especially when there’s some residual sugar. It’s not always foolproof, but it’s worked for me in the past. Let it sit, rack off the lees, and then hit it with the k-meta and sorbate. That’s been my go-to method for keeping that slight sweetness without any unwanted surprises.

 

[winemaker81]

Your plan sounds pretty solid. I’ve done something similar with my meads. Using potassium metabisulfite should help with stabilizing it, but I’d also recommend adding potassium sorbate. I’ve found that sorbate really helps keep things from fermenting further, especially when there’s some residual sugar. It’s not always foolproof, but it’s worked for me in the past. Let it sit, rack off the lees, and then hit it with the k-meta and sorbate. That’s been my go-to method for keeping that slight sweetness without any unwanted surprises.

On its own, K-meta will not stabilize a wine. That requires sorbate.

If you've had a failure with sorbate + K-meta to stabilize a wine, a likely reason is the sorbate is too old. If stored in ideal conditions it may have a shelf life of several years. However, the typical storage (in a drawer in a ziplock bag) is far from ideal.

I don't backsweeten much, so I buy the smallest packet I can, and write the date on it. 12-15 months later I bin it and buy new the next time I need it.

This allows that the sorbate may have spent time in a warehouse and/or on the LHBS' shelf. IME it's not worth keeping sorbate beyond a certain point, as if a batch fails and is pushing corks, the cost of new corks is far greater than buying a fresh package of sorbate. And of course, that doesn't include the mess and loss of wine if corks actually blow from the pressure.

 

[Rice_Guy]

You are doing a mead. This means that there are non-fermentable sugars and dextrins in the mixture. You should not use 0.990 as the target for “dry” wine. If under 1.005 you can reasonably expect that all easily fermentable sugar is gone. Your risk is that another organism colonizes the wine. Sorbate is a good preventative against yeast and mold.

The original post noted bottling without adding sucrose or other fermentable sugar. I would treat with K meta / reduce the risk of infection and trust it to be stable.
This thread is an interesting example of how many opinions exist. If I added back a sweetener / fermentable sugar I would consider K sorbate. The details matter.

 

[Cedar Hill]

This thread has been highly educational!
I have been making various meads for the past several years, but never considered using sorbate.
Most of the time I use D47, and cold stabilize after 1st rack with little or no problem; once I used E-1118 for a Honey wine, and had to cold stabilize bottles to keep them from popping.

So, when in the process should I add the sorbate?
Thanks!

 

[Rice_Guy]

when in the process should I add the sorbate?

The standard is to add it in the week before bottling along with a dose of meta. K sorbate will not chemically stabilize the wine by itself, it only acts to stop reproduction / new growth of yeast and mold.

There are two issues which we add. Sorbate can chemically react with acids in the system th produce a defect called bubble gum (ethyl sorbate). Second if a MLF was run geranium flavor can be produced (with a straight mead you don’t need MLF).

I like the cold stabilize concept. (what temperature). My current standard has been to room temp hold / clarify over nine months. Over twenty years I have had a handful of times where it refermented. ;(

 

[BPL]

My opinions follow if it matters to you. Lots of good info on this thread. Final gravity is not a good indication of residual FERMENTABLE sugar. The problem with using final gravity is that the "number" is only a reference point to the starting gravity and an estimation ABV% and not residual sugar (RS). Of course, people use that number for the RS. I will agree that it is an indication, good or bad is up for discussions. The final gravity number can also contain various non-fermentable sugars. One of them is glycerol which has a density of 1.261g/cm*3, heavier that water. Some yeasts produce more glycerol than others and each can be different depending on nutrients, fermenting temperatures, and amount of yeast used. Technically a wine can be "dry" with very little RS and still have a final gravity of around 1.00. The same amount of RS can be in a wine with a final gravity of .992. The ONLY way to know how much RS is in a wine is to actually measure the glucose/fructose (GF) content. As mentioned elsewhere, a combination of campden (KMeta) + sorbate greatly reduces the chances of fermentation starting back up again---that includes with excess RS or back sweetening with added sugar. I typically cold stabilize/age for a minimum of 3 months around 55*f, stabilize with Kmeta/sorbate-wait about 5 to 7 days, then bottle. I use the same stabilization technique if back sweetening.

 

[Cedar Hill]

The standard is to add it in the week before bottling along with a dose of meta. K sorbate will not chemically stabilize the wine by itself, it only acts to stop reproduction / new growth of yeast and mold.

There are two issues which we add. Sorbate can chemically react with acids in the system th produce a defect called bubble gum (ethyl sorbate). Second if a MLF was run geranium flavor can be produced (with a straight mead you don’t need MLF).

I like the cold stabilize concept. (what temperature). My current standard has been to room temp hold / clarify over nine months. Over twenty years I have had a handful of times where it refermented. ;(

Thanks for the info; it's much appreciated.
RE- Cold Stabilizing:
I have an old RV Fridge that can get down to the mid to high 30⁰ F.
It will hold up to two 3 gallon carboys plus a gallon jug. Most of my batches are from things I grew or acquired locally (grapes, peaches, honey, berries, etc.), so the size has worked for me. I leave them in the fridge for 2 to 4 weeks, and most of the time, that does it for fermentation. If not, after RE- racking, I stick it back in for another few weeks.
The only time this didn't work was with the Honey wine (or Honey Champagne). I had to uncork and degas several bottles. It was still fizzy.
This year, however, I may be graduating to a 5 gallon batch, if my grapes survive the drought. I don't think my fridge will hold a 5 gallon carboy, so it's good to have alternatives.
Thanks again!